swords of Mohammed, but what about...

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by Rivkin

I've heard numerous stories about swords of Mohammed, mostly about Zulfakar, but when reading hadith it seemed quite clear to me that Mohammed died from a sword or bow (for it says "he died because his armor was fixed by a jew") ? The death of Mohammed unfortunately was the subject islamic teachers avoided to teach me, so I'm quite ignorant on this, but is this weapon appear in any way referenced in islamic literature ?

Hello All, This is my first post over here, so be kind ,

Anyway, this sword was not Ali's, it belonged to Muhammad, it was given to Ali later, at the battle of the ditch when Muhammad strapped it on Ali before he went out to duel with Amro ibnu Abd-Widd.

Concerning the sword itself, it was not called Zulfikar, it is properly called 'Thulfiqar', which is the proper arab pronounciation. The shape of the blade is not known for certain. We are sure that this sword had a straight blade and probably was double-edged (as were all the arabian swords of the period), unlike the new Arabian style swords (the sabers). Some historians say that the tip of the blade was bifurcated, thus called 'Thulfiqar'. Other historians put it like this, as the pre-islamic term 'Mufaqar' (which is absolutely the same as 'Thulfiqar') means a blade with fullers, they say that the blade of 'Thulfiqar' must have had some special and/or strange kind of fullers. A minority of historians say that this sword had wavy edges (something like a keris...?) thus called 'Thulfiqar' (Note: 'Fiqar' means parts, segments, portions etc.)

One thing is known for certain, this sword was lost along with many other famous swords during the Mamluk rule period, as many famous Mamluke generals and warriors weilded swords that had belonged to Muhammad or his companions and passed them down to their families ( Sultan Rukn-El-Deen Baibars Al Bundaqari weilded Umar ibn-Khattab's (the 2nd caliph in Islam) sword, 'Thul-wishah' at the battle of Ayn-Jalut).

Phew! Hope this helps

[Andrew]

Hi Mike! Nice to see you here.

Excellent first post, thanks for the insight. It is invaluable to have another member who speaks and reads Arabic on the forum.

Have you had the opportunity to get to the Topkapi and see the collection up close and personal?

[Jim McDougall]

Mike,
Outstanding!! Thank you for this excellent explanation on the extremely important details concerning the early history of Islam.
It is really great to see you posting here! Looking forward to your valuable input on the weaponry of Arabia and for your perspective on the often delicate discussion of matters pertaining to the Islamic Faith.
Best regards and welcome!!
Jim

[M.carter]

Thanks Andrew, Jim for the warm welcome.

Unfortunately no Andrew, I havent had the opportunity to go see those swords in Topkapi, but I shall look to it that I make a trip there, I always wonder what these swords are doing in Turkey anyway?! They should be in somewhere like Mecca or Madina in S.Arabia.

[Rivkin]

Well, Ottoman empire did more or less control Mecca till late XVIII century..

[M.carter]

Yes but Mecca was independant in rule from the Ottomans, the Bani Hashim (Sharifs) ruled it since the fall of the Abbasid Empire until Ibn Saud banished Sharif Hussein from Mecca, but that still doesnt explain why these swords shouldnt be found in Mecca, which is the holiest site for Muslims, not Istanbul.

[Andrew]

Spoils of war, I'd guess.

[Rivkin]

Well, still the title "Caliph of Mecca" was not an arabic one, and while independent on domestic issues, it did not mean the full independance.

Concerning the place - well, the spear of destiny is not in jerusalem either, so it's more of a privilage of powerful to control the religious artifacts.