Looking for a rapier identical to this one.

[kronckew]

question: how sharp would a rapier edge have been during their heyday? or would the be left dull, as the point was the more important?

[fernando]

Tricky question ... as the concept of rapier is a bit discussable.
... Chris Evans would better guide you into that universe .
Speaking of a "true" rapier the blade would be completely dull.
I have once seen a rapier blade, which blade was a highly tense diamond section dull "iron". I believe even their points don't have to be very sharp, due to their thrusting abilities.
Swords like the ones posted here are rapiers of second generation, to put it that way; their blades being more or less sharp like many other swords; not razor sharp ... simply sharp.
I guess this evolution was mostly based on the fact that original rapiers were destined for restricted purposes, to be used by previleged classes, either in fencing schools or, when in street fights, obliging for both opponents to be school trained.
... Whereas later ones could be effective in the hands of the common man, something more realistic as, when the moment comes, fighting is how you manage do it and not by following demanding manuals.
I hope all this makes some sense

[kronckew]

i had an ulterior motive for asking.

as this is the EU, this czech was free to immigrate to gloucestershire. she even brought her clothing. needle pointy with the schwech (foible - 1st third back from the point) mildly sharpened but won't cut paper, the rest is as sharp as a butter knife.

[fernando]

Is this original ?

[kronckew]

i cannot tell a lie. she IS 'original', but she is very young she was only born last week after a 5 week gestation period. took her a week to travel here from prague. she arrived yesterday. she and her clothes were custom made to my measurements. we seemed to have slightly different opinions on what 'sharp' means tho. ah, well. i've got some nice diamond stones.

more kiddy porn:




i told him i was after historical accuracy, as much as possible anyway. he seems to have done a good job. i was after a 'user' rather than a noble's fashion accessory.

p.s. - he makes ones much like yours as well

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... p.s. - he makes ones much like yours as well

Thanks for the heads up Wayne, but i only pick real antique stuff ... with seppuku prices -
No practicing; only exhibiting them ... to myself .

[kronckew]

i like looking at old ones too.

i also like being able to poke holes in melons and milk jugs and slice them into paper thin slices with well made historical reproductions that i can stress without worry; and i can try stuff with them i would never try with one of my actual antiques. knowing how they handle is half the fun.

why get any modern 'tactical' sharp pointy things when the old styles are battle tested. they are also cheaper tho frequently more utilitarian and not up to the same level of craftsmanship and finesse. i also like to keep these traditional smithies funded to keep the skills alive as much as possible.

i recall seeing the sutton hoo horde with the relic weapons displayed with the reconstructed replicas. much more informative.

[Chris Evans]

Fernando: Thanks for the cue

kronckew

Originally Posted by kronckew

question: how sharp would a rapier edge have been during their heyday? or would the be left dull, as the point was the more important?

I don't think that we can do any better than guess because if we see an unusually sharp antique rapier we would not know when it was so sharpened, and here we have to remember that even the end of the rapier era was over 300yrs ago, so a lot could have have been done to a sword in that time. And the bulk of the swords in collections are quite dull, but this may be no more than the work of the centuries

But given that rapier blades had little percussive effect, if they were expected to do any real cutting, they better be very sharp. I think that dueling sabres and schlagers offer us a decent clue because they fairly well replicate a slender bladed rapier, and these were kept extremely sharp.

Cheers
Chris
PS Nice replica rapier. How long is its blade?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

...
PS Nice replica rapier. How long is its blade?

blade is 96 cm. measured from the forwardmost guard ring. grip adds another 30 cm. from there to the end of the pommel (excluding the peening). blade is 22 mm. wide at the maker's mark. weighs 1.15 kilos.

it's just long enough so i can actually pull it from the scabbard while wearing the belt/hanger. more importantly, i can also then put it back in.

ah, well back to the same old grind (). i don't intend to cut any targets, but i would like to have it in operational condition.

[Chris Evans]

Kronckew

Originally Posted by kronckew

ah, well back to the same old grind (). i don't intend to cut any targets, but i would like to have it in operational condition.

Just looking at the photo, it appears to me that the cross sectional geometry of the blade does not lend itself to any significant cutting, because the four facets of the blade would make for rather steep bevels. In such instances, the only real effect of sharpening is to facilitate penetration and discourage the seizure of the blade with a hand by an opponent.

But there's nothing to prevent one from "thinning" out the tip area of the blade so as to be able to apply tip cuts.

Cheers
Chris