On the Origins of the so-called Berber Sabres

[TVV]

Jim,

How reliable is Tirri as a reference? I am sure he is correct about many attributions, but then, according to his book, we should still be looking for the laz bicagi in Egypt. We have to be careful not to propagate false information.

Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Teodor you know you and I are very much on the same page regarding the Tirri 'references', and who can forget the BSY drama! However as with most of these kinds of books, subsequent research and findings can often either further refute or sometimes support entries . In the case of these sabres I personally have not held to Tirri's classification, but as with many cases there is a wide scope of qualification and things can often be in gray areas.
Overall the larger balance of his attributions are reliable, and very much so considering those who consulted in preparation of the book, however it seems the major problem is the lack of cited references and sources.

I definitely agree, that we as students of arms history should not propogate false information, but continue research to properly balance information at hand. If these are indeed with the origins in Morocco then we need to properly acknowledge that with new findings, but frankly at this point the jury is still out.
Conversely, with the Laz Bicagi case, a classic example of revision, reminding us to recheck data used from many of the references we consult. I once read "...the thing I like most about history, is how its always changing!".


All the best,
JIm

[ariel]

Can't find my copy of Spring's book on african weapons.
But the scabbard of the "berber" one has the same protrusion at the end as the ethiopian ones. Yes, Berbers are not Ethiopians, but heck of a lot closer to them geographically than the Brazilians:-)

[Jim McDougall]

That was something that I noticed as well when I first got one of these 'Berber' sabres back in the early 1990s, and could not figure out why those examples shown in Spring as Ethiopian had the same type protrusions. I think that discussions some years ago also suggested that the 'thum' type extension on khanjhar scabbards and from Algerian regions some of the koummya scabbards was considered possible in influence.

Again, aside from Spring, other references on Ethiopian edged weapons do not include these type sabres, and as far as I know most of the varying shotel scabbards (excluding Spring) do not have these protrusions.

[ariel]

The pic I showed is not from Spring. BTW, I found my copy of Spring:-) and can photo the examples from it for general reference.
These protrusions may be infrequent on the Ethiopian scabbards, but they do exist. I know of no other examples of weapons that share such a feature. We cannot ignore it as a potential evidence of the "berber" sabres belonging to Africa rather than S. America

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks, I knew this example was not from Spring, and it is really an interesting anomaly as far as I can see. I had not seen swords with the S guard in this context. It would be great to have the examples from Spring shown here to illustrate what we're discussing for the readers.

I agree that these factors are pressing for a North African presence of these distinctly hilted and scabbarded sabres. Another sword discussion which may have some oblique bearing on this conundrum does recall another item in the Tirri reference which had disputed provenance, the so called 'Zanzibar sword'. This is the baselard (H shape hilt) form smallsword which was identified as a 'Zanzibar' sword in Burton (1884). I found that this exact and apparant misidentification was lifted directly from Demmin (1877) right down to the line drawing, and subsequently found that Buttin (1933) had classified these as Moroccan s'boula. In his footnotes he cites the Burton/Demmin 'error' .

What was most interesting was that Tirri had an example of one of these exact swords with Amharic inscription and I found an example of one of these among Ethiopian weapons in "Weapons of Africa" (Lindert, 1964) a small pamphlet.

These elements suggest the strong ties via trade route networking which existed transcontinentally, and pronounced presence of Moroccan weapons as far as Zanzibar, which would of course include Berber forms in cases. These networks included of course routes through Ethiopian points, and may explain the presence of s'boula in Zanzibar and Ethiopia...as well as conversely these scabbards with distinct vertical protrusion (resembling the Arab influence suggested) being in Ethiopian and Berber contexts.

I would point out as I have throught the years the interesting case of the Manding sabres which have cylindrical hilts compellingly similar to the Omani kattara, yet they occur in distant Saharan context far from Omani contact...except through possible trade presence from Zanzibar, which was of course an Omani Sultanate as well as powerful trade entrepot. Of further note is again the scabbards, which carry the flared tip characteristic of the kaskara, and revealing probable diffusion westward in these trade routes.

While these notes are concerning other sword forms, they seem pertinant to the study of these Berber sabres and thier likely origins and development, which seems to favor North African Berber regions at this point.
As I have once again brought Buttin into the discussion, it seems a bit contrary to suggest that these sabres cannot have been among Moroccan weapons as they do not appear in Buttin...while noting that the 'Zanzibar' swords are in fact Moroccan because they DO appear in his reference.

It is clear that more support is needed for those weapons' origin as well as continuing viable research on the 'Berber' sabres. As Teodor has well noted, many misperceptions have been perpetuated with the use of material from earlier references without further study and evidence. I think that is why we are here.

[ariel]

Here they are: Ethiopian Gurades from Spring's book.
Do they remind us of something? :-)