So... real or fake?

Emanuel · 4th June 2013, 07:22 PM

Hi there and welcome to the forum,

I agree this is a variation of the "wedding nimcha". I got one of the highly curved kind (see attached images from Oriental-Arms) in 2006 at just over a third of the ebay listing price. The blade is cut to shape from sheet metal, it isn't forged to shape.

I believe these are derived from the Kabyle (Algerian) flyssa. At some point after the French occupation of Algeria, arms manufacture was banned. Smiths and craftrsmen that used to make the nice old swords then started making smaller knife-sized daggers of similar construction and style. Over the decades these were simplified more and more until the geometric patterns carved into wooden scabbards were replaced by brass wire and coloured decorations. The blades went from forged 1cm thick sabres to 5mm thin blades cut to shape. The reason these are called nimcha is that they often have a form of the "dog-head" handle and curved guard seen on the nimcha sabres.

Search through the forum for these terms: flyssa, nimcha, khodme, bou-saada for lots of info on what might have been the genesis of these knives.

Regards,
Emanuel

Freddy · 6th June 2013, 09:06 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Here's the double knife Vandoo talked about. This set is relatively small, measuring about 21,5 cm in length.

The knives are all steel.

VANDOO · 7th June 2013, 08:04 AM

THANKS FOR POSTING THE PCI'S FREDDY.

I HAVE LONG WONDERED WHAT THE USE AND NAME OF THESE KNIVES WAS. THERE IS LITTLE INFORMATION ON THEM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW IS IN OLDER POSTS. THE MOST INFORMATION I FOUND WAS IN A OLD BANNERMAN CATALOG WHICH SAID LITTLE OTHER THAN ALGERIA AS THE ORIGION. PERHAPS A FORUM MEMBER OR LURKER MAY HAVE AND SHARE FURTHER INFORMATION. THESE LITTLE STEEL KNIVES HAVE ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME WITH THE WORKMANSHIP.
A NAME FOR THE KNIFE ORIGINATEING THIS POST AND ITS USE WOULD ALSO BE A GOOD THING.

Andreas · 7th June 2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THANKS FOR POSTING THE PCI'S FREDDY.

I HAVE LONG WONDERED WHAT THE USE AND NAME OF THESE KNIVES WAS. THERE IS LITTLE INFORMATION ON THEM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW IS IN OLDER POSTS. THE MOST INFORMATION I FOUND WAS IN A OLD BANNERMAN CATALOG WHICH SAID LITTLE OTHER THAN ALGERIA AS THE ORIGION. PERHAPS A FORUM MEMBER OR LURKER MAY HAVE AND SHARE FURTHER INFORMATION. THESE LITTLE STEEL KNIVES HAVE ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME WITH THE WORKMANSHIP.
A NAME FOR THE KNIFE ORIGINATEING THIS POST AND ITS USE WOULD ALSO BE A GOOD THING.

Although they look more like steak knives, these are actually Kabyle razors. I dont know if they have a specific name but razor in Kabyle is asettal (plural isettalen).
Regards
Andreas

VANDOO · 7th June 2013, 08:28 PM

MANY THANKS ! ANDREAS A OLD MYSTERY SOLVED AT LAST.

ARE THESE STILL BEING MADE OR USED OR HAS MORE MODERN RAZORS REPLACED THEM?. I ASSUME MANY BARBERS STILL PLY THEIR TRADE IN ALGERIA BUT DO THEY ADHERE TO THE OLD TRADITIONAL EQUIPMENT OR OPT FOR NEWER.
THE BEARD IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF BEING A MAN AND WOULD NEED TO BE KEPT PROPERLY GROOMED AND IN SOME A SHAVED HEAD WAS ALSO DESIRED SO A RAZOR WOULD BE IMPORTANT AND OFTEN NEEDED.

4th June 2013, 07:22 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi there and welcome to the forum, I agree this is a variation of the "wedding nimcha". I got one of the highly curved kind (see attached images from Oriental-Arms) in 2006 at just over a third of the ebay listing price. The blade is cut to shape from sheet metal, it isn't forged to shape. I believe these are derived from the Kabyle (Algerian) flyssa. At some point after the French occupation of Algeria, arms manufacture was banned. Smiths and craftrsmen that used to make the nice old swords then started making smaller knife-sized daggers of similar construction and style. Over the decades these were simplified more and more until the geometric patterns carved into wooden scabbards were replaced by brass wire and coloured decorations. The blades went from forged 1cm thick sabres to 5mm thin blades cut to shape. The reason these are called nimcha is that they often have a form of the "dog-head" handle and curved guard seen on the nimcha sabres. Search through the forum for these terms: flyssa, nimcha, khodme, bou-saada for lots of info on what might have been the genesis of these knives. Regards, Emanuel Attached Images

6th June 2013, 09:06 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Welcome to the forum. Here's the double knife Vandoo talked about. This set is relatively small, measuring about 21,5 cm in length. The knives are all steel. Attached Images

7th June 2013, 08:04 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THANKS FOR POSTING THE PCI'S FREDDY. I HAVE LONG WONDERED WHAT THE USE AND NAME OF THESE KNIVES WAS. THERE IS LITTLE INFORMATION ON THEM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW IS IN OLDER POSTS. THE MOST INFORMATION I FOUND WAS IN A OLD BANNERMAN CATALOG WHICH SAID LITTLE OTHER THAN ALGERIA AS THE ORIGION. PERHAPS A FORUM MEMBER OR LURKER MAY HAVE AND SHARE FURTHER INFORMATION. THESE LITTLE STEEL KNIVES HAVE ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME WITH THE WORKMANSHIP. A NAME FOR THE KNIFE ORIGINATEING THIS POST AND ITS USE WOULD ALSO BE A GOOD THING.

7th June 2013, 08:28 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MANY THANKS ! ANDREAS A OLD MYSTERY SOLVED AT LAST. ARE THESE STILL BEING MADE OR USED OR HAS MORE MODERN RAZORS REPLACED THEM?. I ASSUME MANY BARBERS STILL PLY THEIR TRADE IN ALGERIA BUT DO THEY ADHERE TO THE OLD TRADITIONAL EQUIPMENT OR OPT FOR NEWER. THE BEARD IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF BEING A MAN AND WOULD NEED TO BE KEPT PROPERLY GROOMED AND IN SOME A SHAVED HEAD WAS ALSO DESIRED SO A RAZOR WOULD BE IMPORTANT AND OFTEN NEEDED.