Museums are sailing in very stormy weathers!

Maurice · 19th May 2013, 09:14 PM

After some important museums in the Netherlands who had to shut their doors, it's getting even worse.
It seems that even now the Amsterdam Tropenmuseum has difficulties to keep his head above the water.
This all because of the lack of funds of the Government, which they used to get in the old days.
It seems that nobody cares about heritage and old collections which tell us those important things from the past..... at least the Dutch Government doesn't.......

How is it in other countries in the world? The same problems as overhere with the ressesion and the economizing on museums and their collections?

Jonno · 19th May 2013, 09:20 PM

It's a shame!!

Maurice · 19th May 2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonno

It's a shame!!

Yes John, it is! Where does it end?

laEspadaAncha · 19th May 2013, 09:38 PM

Fortunately, here in the U.S., or at least here in Southern California, our regional museums have largely continued as normal, their funding requirements (AFAIK) mostly received from membership, benefactors, and through fundraising events - here at Balboa Park in San Diego, they've even maintained their rotating schedule of "Free Tuesdays" for San Diego residents. Our one casualty since the crash of 2008 has been a North County sattelite arm of one museum. It's our parks that have suffered the most, with reduced staffing and the consequential closing of park-related museums, such as the Serra Museum at the Presidio, or the San Pasqual Battlefield Museum here in San Diego County, which have both had their hours of opertion reduced to a handful a month.

The National Endowment for the Arts has a total budget of just over $150 million, a fiscal burden that doesn't even appear on the radar of the pragmatic.

I am truly sorry to hear of the closing and/or reduced operational capacity of some of your museums.

Maurice · 19th May 2013, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Fortunately, here in the U.S., or at least here in Southern California, our regional museums have largely continued as normal, their funding requirements (AFAIK) mostly received from membership, benefactors, and through fundraising events - here at Balboa Park in San Diego, they've even maintained their rotating schedule of "Free Tuesdays" for San Diego residents. Our one casualty since the crash of 2008 has been a North County sattelite arm of one museum. It's our parks that have suffered the most, with reduced staffing and the consequential closing of park-related museums, such as the Serra Museum at the Presidio, or the San Pasqual Battlefield Museum here in San Diego County, which have both had their hours of opertion reduced to a handful a month.

The National Endowment for the Arts has a total budget of just over $150 million, a fiscal burden that doesn't even appear on the radar of the pragmatic.

I am truly sorry to hear of the closing and/or reduced operational capacity of some of your museums.

Thanks for the information about the regional museums in your neighborhood.
I must admit we have pretty much museums here in this little country, and I agree that not all can survive.
But when it's done with policy, and maybe collaboration between museums, I would have a better feeling about it.
It is necessary to take care of the collections, and keeping them together and open for public.

I know for instance that a lot of the Nijmegen museum pieces are in private hands now, after closing the museum some years ago. Some of them were for sale on the market allready and even I had an Aceh shield of this collection.
Some of the ex-Nijmegen museum pieces are placed amongst collections in other museums. In this way the whole collection had been teared up and nobody is able to trace anything anymore..

Tim Simmons · 19th May 2013, 10:10 PM

I just do not understand. This must have something to do with current trends and tasteless bean counter forecasts. How any company, organisation or even state government could let such a short sighted thing happen.

Maurice · 19th May 2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I just do not understand. This must have something to do with current trends and tasteless bean counter forecasts. How any company, organisation or even state government could let such a short sighted thing happen.

As a matter of fact most of the time it isn't the company or organisation, but the state government who are the culprits by shutting down all financial subvention at once.....

A. G. Maisey · 20th May 2013, 12:27 AM

Yes, it is true that museums all over the world are struggling to stay afloat, however, this is not a recent phenomenon.

About 25 years ago I was visited by a curator from a major European museum. This gentleman had an interest in the keris, and this was the reason for his visit.

His museum kept and displayed not only artifacts from the past, but artifacts from the present day. He indicated an interest in acquiring several finely current production, carved Javanese keris hilts that I had which were of patterns that the museum did not possess, and requested that I hold these hilts for him until he received permission from the relevant people in the museum to purchase.

Several months after his return to Europe I received a letter advising me that he had been unable to obtain permission to purchase because of a shortage of funds.

This curator has now retired, and the museum at which he was employed is slowly sinking --- even though it is a major cultural institution not only in its own country, but internationally.

Last year I visited several major museums in Europe as a guest of the curators of the museum departments that dealt with keris. In one of these museums the curator related how in a 17 year period the staff of the museum charged with maintenance and display of the objects in the museum's care had fallen in numbers from 37 to 9.

About 30 years ago I was approached by a museum here in Australia to assist in the identification and cataloguing of SE Asian weapons held in store. I was followed-up on this over about a 5 year period, but the actual work I had agreed to assist with never eventuated. Why? Because museum policy dictated that I must at all times be accompanied by a member of the museum staff, and staff cuts had reduced staff to a level where nobody was available for identification and cataloguing.

It is very easy to blame governments for this lack of museum funding, however, governments in democracies represent the will of the people who elect them, and these same governments are responsible for the distribution of tax moneys gathered from those who elect them.

The vast bulk of people in most, if not all, modern communities never visit a museum and have very little interest in art and artifacts of the past, most especially so when the other responsibilities of an elected government, such as provision of infrastructure and community services, hospitals, education, care for those in a community who are unable to care for themselves, and etcetera, are taken into consideration.

The cure for the deterioration of the museum movement lays in education, but education now is very pragmatic and is designed to fit a student for production and survival in our modern world. I doubt if the classical education that was available in a limited number of schools in my country 60 and more years ago is available any longer, anywhere, in the English speaking world. This is perhaps as it should be:- a knowledge of Homer is not nearly as valuable now as it once was considered to be.

Bear this in mind:- most education is funded by public moneys, and the public do want to see their children leave school fitted to either produce income and support themselves, or fitted to pursue further learning which will ultimately result in (probably) higher income.

Perhaps the only way in which the continuance of museums might be facilitated is to adopt a different philosophy of learning whereby the past is once again emphasised as a valuable component part of a person's knowledge. However, to follow this path would be to undermine the very foundations of modern political endeavour, so it is not likely to happen.

Enjoy our museums while you can, because I doubt that future generations will have the same opportunities that we have had, and to a limited extent, still do have.

Rick · 20th May 2013, 04:40 AM

I remember a certain novel I've read, more than once: The Mote In God's Eye .
Museums were quite important in that story .

Actually, it made me think a bit on this subject ...

Tim Simmons · 20th May 2013, 06:46 PM

The irony is you can bet the government can find lots of money for a raft of pet on trend ineffective and of doubtful long term sustainability projects. In the UK it is things like trying to make people that do not like sport do sport, opera and most of all any nonsense that will appeal to the core voter, people with no taste or imagination at all.

asomotif · 20th May 2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

As a matter of fact most of the time it isn't the company or organisation, but the state government who are the culprits by shutting down all financial subvention at once.....

In this specific case, the Tropenmuseum resides under the department of foreign affairs. A very unusual construction, and probably also a very unlucky one for the future of the museum.

fearn · 21st May 2013, 12:37 AM

Actually, at least two of the museums in Balboa Park are doing as ducks do: looking serene above water, and paddling crazily beneath the surface to stay afloat. I know this because I'm a member of one museum, and a member of another group that donates money to that museum to keep one of its core (and award winning) departments open and working.

My experience is that this is fairly normal for non-profits. There are fat years and lean years, and more to take care of every year, given that greed is currently fashionable and philanthropy currently is not.

Given Tim's disparaging comment on sustainability, I suspect I'm whistling in the wind here, but I'd strongly suggest that the wealthier among us might seriously consider giving grants to our favorite museums to pay for the salaries of people to keep up their favorite weapons collections. Rust and rot doesn't do anyone a bit of good, does it?

I'd also suggest that, if fantasy online games are mining all these museums for weapons to use in their games, they'd do well to give a bit of money back to the museums that provided them with the raw material they used to decorate those games.

But then again, I've always been an impractical romantic.

F

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Fortunately, here in the U.S., or at least here in Southern California, our regional museums have largely continued as normal, their funding requirements (AFAIK) mostly received from membership, benefactors, and through fundraising events - here at Balboa Park in San Diego, they've even maintained their rotating schedule of "Free Tuesdays" for San Diego residents. Our one casualty since the crash of 2008 has been a North County sattelite arm of one museum. It's our parks that have suffered the most, with reduced staffing and the consequential closing of park-related museums, such as the Serra Museum at the Presidio, or the San Pasqual Battlefield Museum here in San Diego County, which have both had their hours of opertion reduced to a handful a month.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th May 2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Actually, at least two of the museums in Balboa Park are doing as ducks do: looking serene above water, and paddling crazily beneath the surface to stay afloat. I know this because I'm a member of one museum, and a member of another group that donates money to that museum to keep one of its core (and award winning) departments open and working.

My experience is that this is fairly normal for non-profits. There are fat years and lean years, and more to take care of every year, given that greed is currently fashionable and philanthropy currently is not.

Given Tim's disparaging comment on sustainability, I suspect I'm whistling in the wind here, but I'd strongly suggest that the wealthier among us might seriously consider giving grants to our favorite museums to pay for the salaries of people to keep up their favorite weapons collections. Rust and rot doesn't do anyone a bit of good, does it?

I'd also suggest that, if fantasy online games are mining all these museums for weapons to use in their games, they'd do well to give a bit of money back to the museums that provided them with the raw material they used to decorate those games.

But then again, I've always been an impractical romantic.

F

Salaams fearn, I agree with all that... What is needed is an Ethnographic Arms and Armour Museum...!! Then we could really go to town on the subject and all its supporting concepts like certification and degree programs... Yaaaaa !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Gavin Nugent · 26th May 2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams fearn, I agree with all that... What is needed is an Ethnographic Arms and Armour Museum...!!

We all have one in our own homes :-)

Gavin

19th May 2013, 09:14 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Museums are sailing in very stormy weathers! After some important museums in the Netherlands who had to shut their doors, it's getting even worse. It seems that even now the Amsterdam Tropenmuseum has difficulties to keep his head above the water. This all because of the lack of funds of the Government, which they used to get in the old days. It seems that nobody cares about heritage and old collections which tell us those important things from the past..... at least the Dutch Government doesn't....... How is it in other countries in the world? The same problems as overhere with the ressesion and the economizing on museums and their collections? Attached Images

19th May 2013, 09:20 PM	#2
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	It's a shame!!

19th May 2013, 09:38 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Fortunately, here in the U.S., or at least here in Southern California, our regional museums have largely continued as normal, their funding requirements (AFAIK) mostly received from membership, benefactors, and through fundraising events - here at Balboa Park in San Diego, they've even maintained their rotating schedule of "Free Tuesdays" for San Diego residents. Our one casualty since the crash of 2008 has been a North County sattelite arm of one museum. It's our parks that have suffered the most, with reduced staffing and the consequential closing of park-related museums, such as the Serra Museum at the Presidio, or the San Pasqual Battlefield Museum here in San Diego County, which have both had their hours of opertion reduced to a handful a month. The National Endowment for the Arts has a total budget of just over $150 million, a fiscal burden that doesn't even appear on the radar of the pragmatic. I am truly sorry to hear of the closing and/or reduced operational capacity of some of your museums.

19th May 2013, 10:10 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I just do not understand. This must have something to do with current trends and tasteless bean counter forecasts. How any company, organisation or even state government could let such a short sighted thing happen.

20th May 2013, 12:27 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, it is true that museums all over the world are struggling to stay afloat, however, this is not a recent phenomenon. About 25 years ago I was visited by a curator from a major European museum. This gentleman had an interest in the keris, and this was the reason for his visit. His museum kept and displayed not only artifacts from the past, but artifacts from the present day. He indicated an interest in acquiring several finely current production, carved Javanese keris hilts that I had which were of patterns that the museum did not possess, and requested that I hold these hilts for him until he received permission from the relevant people in the museum to purchase. Several months after his return to Europe I received a letter advising me that he had been unable to obtain permission to purchase because of a shortage of funds. This curator has now retired, and the museum at which he was employed is slowly sinking --- even though it is a major cultural institution not only in its own country, but internationally. Last year I visited several major museums in Europe as a guest of the curators of the museum departments that dealt with keris. In one of these museums the curator related how in a 17 year period the staff of the museum charged with maintenance and display of the objects in the museum's care had fallen in numbers from 37 to 9. About 30 years ago I was approached by a museum here in Australia to assist in the identification and cataloguing of SE Asian weapons held in store. I was followed-up on this over about a 5 year period, but the actual work I had agreed to assist with never eventuated. Why? Because museum policy dictated that I must at all times be accompanied by a member of the museum staff, and staff cuts had reduced staff to a level where nobody was available for identification and cataloguing. It is very easy to blame governments for this lack of museum funding, however, governments in democracies represent the will of the people who elect them, and these same governments are responsible for the distribution of tax moneys gathered from those who elect them. The vast bulk of people in most, if not all, modern communities never visit a museum and have very little interest in art and artifacts of the past, most especially so when the other responsibilities of an elected government, such as provision of infrastructure and community services, hospitals, education, care for those in a community who are unable to care for themselves, and etcetera, are taken into consideration. The cure for the deterioration of the museum movement lays in education, but education now is very pragmatic and is designed to fit a student for production and survival in our modern world. I doubt if the classical education that was available in a limited number of schools in my country 60 and more years ago is available any longer, anywhere, in the English speaking world. This is perhaps as it should be:- a knowledge of Homer is not nearly as valuable now as it once was considered to be. Bear this in mind:- most education is funded by public moneys, and the public do want to see their children leave school fitted to either produce income and support themselves, or fitted to pursue further learning which will ultimately result in (probably) higher income. Perhaps the only way in which the continuance of museums might be facilitated is to adopt a different philosophy of learning whereby the past is once again emphasised as a valuable component part of a person's knowledge. However, to follow this path would be to undermine the very foundations of modern political endeavour, so it is not likely to happen. Enjoy our museums while you can, because I doubt that future generations will have the same opportunities that we have had, and to a limited extent, still do have.

20th May 2013, 04:40 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I remember a certain novel I've read, more than once: The Mote In God's Eye . Museums were quite important in that story . Actually, it made me think a bit on this subject ...

20th May 2013, 06:46 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The irony is you can bet the government can find lots of money for a raft of pet on trend ineffective and of doubtful long term sustainability projects. In the UK it is things like trying to make people that do not like sport do sport, opera and most of all any nonsense that will appeal to the core voter, people with no taste or imagination at all.