An Interesting Kris

[VVV]

Nice catch, Ron!
That's the smallest one I have ever seen.
It doesn't resemble a "proto-kris" so maybe a "proto-punal", as Kai suggested, could be an explanation?
What's your idea, based on actually handling it?

Michael

[CharlesS]

Spunjer, I think I see a bit of a difference in the hilt size between the two you have displayed. If so that could suggest that the first one may be a "princely" kriss specifically made for a child. Only handling it would likely answer that question, so what is your take on it?

[mross]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Spunjer, I think I see a bit of a difference in the hilt size between the two you have displayed. If so that could suggest that the first one may be a "princely" kriss specifically made for a child. Only handling it would likely answer that question, so what is your take on it?

I second the ' "princely" kriss specifically made for a child ' idea, makes the most sense given the quality of the handle.

[kai]

I'm with Ron - he already mentioned that it handles like a dagger and that those smaller kris possibly intended for kids/teens tend to be way larger than this dwarf; usually larger than typical archaic kris (on Mindanao). If it was common to have kris for baby princes, one would expect to see more of these rather than an unique example.

The pommel material also doesn't help since ivory is fairly common in gunong, too.

I doubt we'll ever be able to ascertain its original use and may be stuck with guesswork...

Regards,
Kai

[Spunjer]

thanks for everyone's comments so far...
yeah, this particular piece stomps me. another possibility would be a moro panday's attempt in making a version of an indonesian style kris but in a moro kris fashion??? regarding the handle, it's about half to a three quarter inch shorter than that of an average handle, and the circumference is a tad smaller. we can assume it was made for a smaller person, but why is the blade way shorter than what we consider as boy's kris? i forgot to mention that the blade has a diamond shape cross section, and it's about a quarter inch thick for the most part. as i have mention, the balance is excellent.
Al, regarding your question about the other kris's elephant trunk: no, it's not broken, rather it's abbreviated. kai, per your request, i've added a close-up of the handle. i've also added a close-up of the crosspiece. those pins btw are swaasa

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Seems to me it could've been made as a 'dress dagger', to be worn when attending formal Occidental functions.

Best,

[kai]

The regular kris sword was the EDC and alter ego of any male Moro and, contrary to fairly late developments of keris culture on Java, was meant to be used if (perceived to be) needed. Not carrying a functional kris (or barung in Sulu regions) was akin to advertising being dumb enough to bring a toothpick to a swordfight. (To modify a common saying... )

I never heard that anyone attending formal Moro ceremonies was asked to put down arms or come with "toys" instead of the real thing (I guess this would have been regarded as severe insult to the guest as well as showing lack of courage on side of the host). A datu had retainers around him which certainly doubled up as bodyguards to deter unwise moves.

Like today with cars/etc., if someone had a high social status it wouldn't hurt to display a larger or more lavishly fitted sword than your rival on the other side of the mountain. Considering the materials (and longer scabbard) this is certainly a datu-level 'dress dagger' but I don't think it could double for the real thing in Moro culture for any but the youngest sons.

Older kids would wear kris not much smaller than typical ones; I've never seen one of those suggested to be children's kris with a blade distinctly shorter than the scabbard. A dagger (needing a completely different fighting style) would defeat the whole purpose though, I guess.

This configuration with the "oversized" scabbard would make most sense in a colonial setting after sword bans got into effect. However, this piece seems to predate this unfortunate period in Moro history by at least several decades.

To me it seems more probable to be a dagger meant to be worn in addition to a regular-sized Moro kris. Ron, could you please check whether you can see wear suggesting on which side this piece was actually carried?

Regards,
Kai