Books on Indian and regional swords

Neil · 26th March 2013, 05:44 AM

Thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate the advice. I have Rawson, Paul, and Stone. They do not appear to have the depth I am looking for though. I will look to the other works mentioned, and continue reading the forum threads to further my studies.
Thanks again,
Neil

CharlesS · 26th March 2013, 12:22 PM

If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

Neil · 26th March 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

Does anyone have thoughts on Elgoods book "Islamic Arms and Armour". I see it was first published in 1979.

CharlesS · 26th March 2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Does anyone have thoughts on Elgoods book "Islamic Arms and Armour". I see it was first published in 1979.

It's good, quite rare, and expensive. It is a very well illustrated scholarly work.

Personally, I prefer Hindu Arms and Ritual, perhaps only because I heard his forum lecture regarding the book and its subject some years ago in Baltimore, and it seems a little fresher to me.

Jim McDougall · 26th March 2013, 05:42 PM

Charles that is a spot on assessment of Robert Elgoods "Hindu Arms and Ritual" , and it is indeed 'fresher' because he has taken an approach to 'understanding' these arms rather than simply cataloguing them in arbitrary classifications. As I mentioned, this is far and above that of virtually all writers before him. I believe the reason for this is that other writers in scholarly context have had a certain kind of fear of addressing more subjective aspects of ethnographic weapons.

One of the key figures and early writers in the study of ethnographic arms was Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword" 1885), and is somewhat dismissive on such aspects of ethnographic weapons, noting the efforts of Professor Gustav Oppert ("On the Weapons etc. of the Ancient Hindus", 1880) as rather insufficient. He refers to this perspective as absurdity and that the Hindus attribute everything on weapons to metaphysical and supernatural. I believe this unfortunately narrow minded approach to the study of ethnographic arms in general, not just India, has virtually hamstrung the understanding of them even into modern scholarship..that is until Robert took his innovative stand. His concerns that his book might be too far into such areas has proven quite unfounded, and in my opinion, exactly the perspective in which these arms should be studied.

"Islamic Arms and Armour" (1979) was actually a compendium of papers written by various authors and edited by Robert Elgood. While these are especially useful they are quite esoteric and attend more to general aspects of Islamic arms, with good benchmark and research data for broader research. There is actually little specifically on Indian arms aside from the scientific investigation on decoration in a two page item, interesting but not detailed necessarily in comparison to subsequent material.
For a good overview on metallurgy and some beautifully illustrated Indian tulwars I would get the work by the late Dr. Leo Figiel, "On Damascus Steel" (1991, on Amazon.com).

Thus far in my opinion there has been no effectively accurate classification of tulwar hilts in regional application, but Pant's work does set some valuable precedents and guidelines (research continues).

As has been noted Neil, there have been many significant contributions on these pages over the years, and we would welcome any specific questions greatly. This is exactly what this forum is here for, and specifically posed questions enable us to address the topic accordingly, where the material becomes archived and useful to all including future research.

All the best,
Jim

Gavin Nugent · 27th March 2013, 01:09 PM

A great question and some very well qualified answers.

Searching through the forums is certainly the best method for starting your research.
You'll find some great topics and some really good reference books supplied by Jens, Rand and others....most of which I personally have tracked down and bought and others have been found along the way too...it really is surprising how many titles are out there.

One that comes to mind is Orez Perski, Persian Arms and Armour. There are some good Indian and Indo Persian swords within.
Arts of the Muslim Knight is a worthy addition to any library.
Islamic weapons in Danish private Collections is worth the buy if you can find it and afford it.
As noted, not a lot of these titles speak volumes but every image and every word is key to understanding many aspects.
Personally, for my money, the titles already mentioned such as Figiel and Pant are the best bang for buck.

Gav

26th March 2013, 05:44 AM	#1
Neil Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 114	Thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate the advice. I have Rawson, Paul, and Stone. They do not appear to have the depth I am looking for though. I will look to the other works mentioned, and continue reading the forum threads to further my studies. Thanks again, Neil

26th March 2013, 12:22 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

26th March 2013, 05:42 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Charles that is a spot on assessment of Robert Elgoods "Hindu Arms and Ritual" , and it is indeed 'fresher' because he has taken an approach to 'understanding' these arms rather than simply cataloguing them in arbitrary classifications. As I mentioned, this is far and above that of virtually all writers before him. I believe the reason for this is that other writers in scholarly context have had a certain kind of fear of addressing more subjective aspects of ethnographic weapons. One of the key figures and early writers in the study of ethnographic arms was Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword" 1885), and is somewhat dismissive on such aspects of ethnographic weapons, noting the efforts of Professor Gustav Oppert ("On the Weapons etc. of the Ancient Hindus", 1880) as rather insufficient. He refers to this perspective as absurdity and that the Hindus attribute everything on weapons to metaphysical and supernatural. I believe this unfortunately narrow minded approach to the study of ethnographic arms in general, not just India, has virtually hamstrung the understanding of them even into modern scholarship..that is until Robert took his innovative stand. His concerns that his book might be too far into such areas has proven quite unfounded, and in my opinion, exactly the perspective in which these arms should be studied. "Islamic Arms and Armour" (1979) was actually a compendium of papers written by various authors and edited by Robert Elgood. While these are especially useful they are quite esoteric and attend more to general aspects of Islamic arms, with good benchmark and research data for broader research. There is actually little specifically on Indian arms aside from the scientific investigation on decoration in a two page item, interesting but not detailed necessarily in comparison to subsequent material. For a good overview on metallurgy and some beautifully illustrated Indian tulwars I would get the work by the late Dr. Leo Figiel, "On Damascus Steel" (1991, on Amazon.com). Thus far in my opinion there has been no effectively accurate classification of tulwar hilts in regional application, but Pant's work does set some valuable precedents and guidelines (research continues). As has been noted Neil, there have been many significant contributions on these pages over the years, and we would welcome any specific questions greatly. This is exactly what this forum is here for, and specifically posed questions enable us to address the topic accordingly, where the material becomes archived and useful to all including future research. All the best, Jim

27th March 2013, 01:09 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A great question and some very well qualified answers. Searching through the forums is certainly the best method for starting your research. You'll find some great topics and some really good reference books supplied by Jens, Rand and others....most of which I personally have tracked down and bought and others have been found along the way too...it really is surprising how many titles are out there. One that comes to mind is Orez Perski, Persian Arms and Armour. There are some good Indian and Indo Persian swords within. Arts of the Muslim Knight is a worthy addition to any library. Islamic weapons in Danish private Collections is worth the buy if you can find it and afford it. As noted, not a lot of these titles speak volumes but every image and every word is key to understanding many aspects. Personally, for my money, the titles already mentioned such as Figiel and Pant are the best bang for buck. Gav