Removing Epoxy

fearn · 19th February 2013, 04:19 AM

You can get dissecting needles on Amazon, or Carolina biological. If you happen to live near a biggish college or university, you can also get them at the student store, since they're standard equipment for freshman biology labs. If you've got a particular crack you're trying to clean out, it's not a bad idea to check out such a student store, because they often have all manner of weird tools in the biology dissection and art areas.

As for alcohol, you can get some pretty high grade methanol (70%) at a pharmacy. Some states in the US sell everclear (100% ethanol) which is another dandy solvent, as is cheap, unflavored vodka (70% ethanol).

I'm a big fan of slow and steady. The alcohol will dehydrate the wood somewhat, so if you heat stress it too often, you may develop a crack. The key thing is that alcohol evaporates at a low temperature, so you don't have to get your oven very hot to drive it off. HOWEVER, alcohol vapors are also flammable, so I strongly recommend low heat and an electric oven, not a gas oven, unless you like blue flames. Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it.

My 0.00002 cents,

F

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2013, 01:05 PM

Any possibility of a pin through the tang?

Spunjer · 20th February 2013, 03:00 AM

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far!
I've attach some pictures of what i'm working on.
Alan, i don't think it's pinned, but i'm beginning to wonder if the strap to the asang-asang is welded by rust. after taking some very close up pics, i can see where the strap looks like there's rust, but then again, it could just be the epoxy. i have tried methylene chloride, MEK, and acetone, but so far none of these worked. and heat. if the rust is bonding the strap to the handle, how do i go about in loosening this up?

Robert · 20th February 2013, 05:20 AM

Hello Spunjer, I've been watching this thread with great interest as I too have a piece that has been put together with epoxy and need the same help that you are looking for. As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt. Do you think that this could be the same for yours?

Robert

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2013, 07:02 AM

I've never worked on one of these Philippine pieces, however, a couple of things do occur to me.

Firstly I'd remove the covering on the hilt if this is possible, in order to ensure there was no pinning of either the tang or the support stirrups.

The second thought is this:- if those stirrups go up into the hilt and there is adhesive holding them too, it is entirely possible that the heat transfer through these much thinner pieces of metal is insufficient to heat the adhesive to the point where it will let go.

If you can get the metal hilt covering off it might be easier simply to cut away the wooden hilt inside the cover and replace it.

The tangs on the things I work on are very often bonded with rust, and then it becomes a matter of repeated heat treatments over days , or even weeks, and working the hilt back and forth under heat, Eventually they let go, but sometimes the rust is so bad it totally penetrates the tang and you need to replace that when you get it free.

kai · 22nd February 2013, 09:05 AM

Hello Ron,

I'm with Alan: Try heating and completely cooling down the blade several times before giving up! I've also stuck a stubborn blade into dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) for a larger temperature amplitude during the heating/cooling cycles.

Quote:

The tangs on the things I work on are very often bonded with rust, and then it becomes a matter of repeated heat treatments over days , or even weeks, and working the hilt back and forth under heat, Eventually they let go, but sometimes the rust is so bad it totally penetrates the tang and you need to replace that when you get it free.

I also agree that the first thing to do is to remove the sheet metal and textile from the grip (both modern and crappy looking IMNSHO

); I assume that you'll go for a decent grip braiding later on?

I don't think it will be necessary to cut the wooden grip for removing the tang though - just work patiently on it for several weeks if necessary...

Regards,
Kai

Spunjer · 23rd February 2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Ron,

I also agree that the first thing to do is to remove the sheet metal and textile from the grip (both modern and crappy looking IMNSHO

); I assume that you'll go for a decent grip braiding later on?

Regards,
Kai

yes, i concur with you regarding the butt ugliness of the grip, but please don't tell my wife that. it was her old dish towel (secured by a gray duct tape) that i use to wrap the handle so i can have a good grip while i worked on it

there are no pins or nails securing the asang2x. Alan did make a good point:

Quote:

The second thought is this:- if those stirrups go up into the hilt and there is adhesive holding them too, it is entirely possible that the heat transfer through these much thinner pieces of metal is insufficient to heat the adhesive to the point where it will let go.

i'm exploring it from this angle at the moment; perhaps a micro butane torch aimed at the stirrups might help loosen the strips attached to it.

kai · 22nd February 2013, 09:13 AM

Robert's suggestion is a good one:

Quote:

As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt.

Yes, nails, or traditionally pins, wire, or some other binding may fasten the strips to the hilt.

I don't think that rust to the clamp strips is causing the problem but generous use of epoxy

may add to the problem.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 22nd February 2013, 09:27 AM

Hello Fearn,

Quote:

I'm a big fan of slow and steady.

Yeah, me too. IMHO, harsh chemicals should be used very, very cautiously if at all!

If you really need to soak in a solvent, I'd remove the pommel if seperate from the grip piece. The solvent may need weeks or months to evaporate completely...

Quote:

Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it.

I'd second that! I'd even make a point of downloading and reading the MSDS (material safety data sheets) from the website of any large chemical supply company for any chemical that you contemplate to utilize.

Better safe than sorry!
Regards,
Kai

20th February 2013, 03:00 AM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Thanks for everyone's feedback so far! I've attach some pictures of what i'm working on. Alan, i don't think it's pinned, but i'm beginning to wonder if the strap to the asang-asang is welded by rust. after taking some very close up pics, i can see where the strap looks like there's rust, but then again, it could just be the epoxy. i have tried methylene chloride, MEK, and acetone, but so far none of these worked. and heat. if the rust is bonding the strap to the handle, how do i go about in loosening this up? Attached Images

19th February 2013, 04:19 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	You can get dissecting needles on Amazon, or Carolina biological. If you happen to live near a biggish college or university, you can also get them at the student store, since they're standard equipment for freshman biology labs. If you've got a particular crack you're trying to clean out, it's not a bad idea to check out such a student store, because they often have all manner of weird tools in the biology dissection and art areas. As for alcohol, you can get some pretty high grade methanol (70%) at a pharmacy. Some states in the US sell everclear (100% ethanol) which is another dandy solvent, as is cheap, unflavored vodka (70% ethanol). I'm a big fan of slow and steady. The alcohol will dehydrate the wood somewhat, so if you heat stress it too often, you may develop a crack. The key thing is that alcohol evaporates at a low temperature, so you don't have to get your oven very hot to drive it off. HOWEVER, alcohol vapors are also flammable, so I strongly recommend low heat and an electric oven, not a gas oven, unless you like blue flames. Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it. My 0.00002 cents, F

19th February 2013, 01:05 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Any possibility of a pin through the tang?

20th February 2013, 05:20 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Spunjer, I've been watching this thread with great interest as I too have a piece that has been put together with epoxy and need the same help that you are looking for. As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt. Do you think that this could be the same for yours? Robert

20th February 2013, 07:02 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	I've never worked on one of these Philippine pieces, however, a couple of things do occur to me. Firstly I'd remove the covering on the hilt if this is possible, in order to ensure there was no pinning of either the tang or the support stirrups. The second thought is this:- if those stirrups go up into the hilt and there is adhesive holding them too, it is entirely possible that the heat transfer through these much thinner pieces of metal is insufficient to heat the adhesive to the point where it will let go. If you can get the metal hilt covering off it might be easier simply to cut away the wooden hilt inside the cover and replace it. The tangs on the things I work on are very often bonded with rust, and then it becomes a matter of repeated heat treatments over days , or even weeks, and working the hilt back and forth under heat, Eventually they let go, but sometimes the rust is so bad it totally penetrates the tang and you need to replace that when you get it free.