Late Gothic Crossbows and Accouterments

Micke D · 17th February 2013, 06:20 PM

Hi David!

Yes I’m also thinking that this crossbow maker was hiding this new invention so that it wasn’t copied by his competitors. I believe that this crossbow maker could actually be THE inventor of the two axle lock, and maybe also the four axle lock! He was at least one of inventors. I think, based on the inlay design and the crossbows overall design, that this maker has also made the crossbow in post #1. This crossbow is later than the one in post #55; it could very well be from 1475 as it says at Peter Finer’s website. Check out the similar design of the crossbow and the delicate inlays between the hole in the tiller and the long white strip below the lock. An interesting and odd thing about this crossbow that it WAS originally built as a two axle crossbow, but it was later rebuilt as a one axle crossbow! This could of course have been done later when the tiller was repaired at the front.

If you also check out the fancier and a lot more expensive crossbow in post #88, page 3, Royal Armouries, Leeds, Inv. –Nr. XI. 11, you will see the same pattern of delicate inlays on the same place as the two other crossbows. This one has a kind of four axle lock, ("Die Hornbogenarmbrust" page 100), that don’t seem to have been used on other crossbows and a lot different than the usual type that was used from at least 1496 to more or less modern times.

I have earlier looked for asymmetrical composite bows, but I can’t say anything conclusive about it, some bows look a bit asymmetrical but the majority seems to be straight. I think the one you mentioned is much to degraded to use as an example for an asymmetrical bow. It’s possible that composite crossbow bows don’t handle the twisting well if they were built asymmetrically.

I think that it is always better if one can build the bow from as few and as long horn strips as possible, but if you look at page 46, 47 and 89 of "Die Hornbogenarmbrust", you will see some examples of how I think most looked inside with pieces of different length and thickness glued together. I don’t think the “teethed joining” between the layers was the weak point but possibly the overlap between the horn pieces or if you get more overlaps at the same place in one of the bow limbs. I think the “teethed joining” was what held the bow together, the pieces locked a bit like LEGO pieces to each other and the glue line was longer.

Best wishes,
Micke

Andi · 20th March 2013, 07:50 PM

Here you will find some macro photos of a crossbow nut found in the Schlossstraße in Hamburg-Harburg.

I am wondering about the substance which can be seen on the middle of the nuts notch. It seems to be metallic, possible lead or tin? Has anyone an idea of its purpose? I was also not able jet to take the dimensions and have to ask the exavators of the object.

cornelistromp · 20th March 2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andi

Here you will find some macro photos of a crossbow nut found in the Schlossstraße in Hamburg-Harburg.

I am wondering about the substance which can be seen on the middle of the nuts notch. It seems to be metallic, possible lead or tin? Has anyone an idea of its purpose? I was also not able jet to take the dimensions and have to ask the exavators of the object.

yes it is lead, or, in the case of a brass nut it is an iron bar.
it ensures as a counterweight that the nut reverses in the ideal position. (After each shot the nut rotates fast around.)
in the neutral position, the nut can be fixed by the bows internal mechanism while the string stretched can be attached behind the nut again.

best,

Micke D · 21st March 2013, 11:59 AM

It’s definitely not lead, it’s a reinforcement piece of iron or steel that’s riveted in the nut. All crossbow nuts have this from at least the 14th century.

cornelistromp · 21st March 2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micke D

It’s definitely not lead, it’s a reinforcement piece of iron or steel that’s riveted in the nut. All crossbow nuts have this from at least the 14th century.

yes can also be made of iron.
the metal you can easily test with a magnet and the function of the counterweight with a shaft through the hole of the nut.

I believe it is a counterweight, apart from this a hole with metal will weaken the nut and not reinforce it.
the later 18thC brass nuts also have a counterweight, a metal bar placed on the width of the nut , reinforcement is no question here also.
all the 17 and 18thC crossbows I have and had in my collection had a counter weight build in making the nut always turning into the same position.

best,

Matchlock · 21st November 2013, 01:08 PM

Please note that the white and blue girdle bag was also used for crossbow bolts/quarrels, just as the usual quiver!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 30th November 2013, 08:56 PM

A fine and important early painting by the Master of the Worcester Carrying of the Cross, active in Bavaria, where I live, ca. 1425.

Best,
Michael

20th March 2013, 07:50 PM	#2
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Here you will find some macro photos of a crossbow nut found in the Schlossstraße in Hamburg-Harburg. I am wondering about the substance which can be seen on the middle of the nuts notch. It seems to be metallic, possible lead or tin? Has anyone an idea of its purpose? I was also not able jet to take the dimensions and have to ask the exavators of the object. Attached Images

21st November 2013, 01:08 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Stunning Details from the Stundenbuch (Book of Hours) of Katharina v. Kleve, ca. 1440 Please note that the white and blue girdle bag was also used for crossbow bolts/quarrels, just as the usual quiver! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 21st November 2013 at 01:18 PM.

30th November 2013, 08:56 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A fine and important early painting by the Master of the Worcester Carrying of the Cross, active in Bavaria, where I live, ca. 1425. Best, Michael Attached Images

17th February 2013, 06:20 PM	#1
Micke D Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 41	Hi David! Yes I’m also thinking that this crossbow maker was hiding this new invention so that it wasn’t copied by his competitors. I believe that this crossbow maker could actually be THE inventor of the two axle lock, and maybe also the four axle lock! He was at least one of inventors. I think, based on the inlay design and the crossbows overall design, that this maker has also made the crossbow in post #1. This crossbow is later than the one in post #55; it could very well be from 1475 as it says at Peter Finer’s website. Check out the similar design of the crossbow and the delicate inlays between the hole in the tiller and the long white strip below the lock. An interesting and odd thing about this crossbow that it WAS originally built as a two axle crossbow, but it was later rebuilt as a one axle crossbow! This could of course have been done later when the tiller was repaired at the front. If you also check out the fancier and a lot more expensive crossbow in post #88, page 3, Royal Armouries, Leeds, Inv. –Nr. XI. 11, you will see the same pattern of delicate inlays on the same place as the two other crossbows. This one has a kind of four axle lock, ("Die Hornbogenarmbrust" page 100), that don’t seem to have been used on other crossbows and a lot different than the usual type that was used from at least 1496 to more or less modern times. I have earlier looked for asymmetrical composite bows, but I can’t say anything conclusive about it, some bows look a bit asymmetrical but the majority seems to be straight. I think the one you mentioned is much to degraded to use as an example for an asymmetrical bow. It’s possible that composite crossbow bows don’t handle the twisting well if they were built asymmetrically. I think that it is always better if one can build the bow from as few and as long horn strips as possible, but if you look at page 46, 47 and 89 of "Die Hornbogenarmbrust", you will see some examples of how I think most looked inside with pieces of different length and thickness glued together. I don’t think the “teethed joining” between the layers was the weak point but possibly the overlap between the horn pieces or if you get more overlaps at the same place in one of the bow limbs. I think the “teethed joining” was what held the bow together, the pieces locked a bit like LEGO pieces to each other and the glue line was longer. Best wishes, Micke

21st March 2013, 11:59 AM	#4
Micke D Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 41	It’s definitely not lead, it’s a reinforcement piece of iron or steel that’s riveted in the nut. All crossbow nuts have this from at least the 14th century.