Yemeni Sayfs? Omani Kattaras?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Hello Khanjar 1,

This is all very intriguing, I have been interested in Arabian weapons for many years and can't really remember seeing a "SwedeGreen" type until this post, yet Ibrahim says South Arabia is awash with them!

I offer the following observations or speculations, some of which I realise are contradictory;-

1, The drag on your scabbard could be from a hyena. Bertram Thomas describes shooting them in the Qarra mountains.
2, When I first saw SwedeGreen's swords I wondered how the hits were made; presumably from sheets of steel or iron, rather than drawn out from an ingot, and I imagine the seams where the hilt is attached to the "block" would be difficult to do on an anvil and would require some form of welding. i.e a type of hilt that could only be relatively modern.
3, When I saw your sword I wondered whether or not these iron or steel hilts were originally covered overall in silver, (like the hilt in the Wallace collection and this one. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sh...pons-and-armour ) which has since been stripped off. If this were so it would answer a lot of questions. This speculation could apply to all these iron hilted swords.
4, Thus the decoration on your sword could have bee made after the original silver was removed and the collar on your sword, an old, half-hearted attempt to restore it's further glory.

Regards
Richard

Salaams Richard~ Can you point me to the quote where I said that?... I may have said the Souk in Muttrah is awash with them because it is... but I dont think I said South Arabia.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Richard G]

Sorry Ibrahiim,
I agree you did not say South Arabia was "awash" with them. But you did say there were dozens in the Muscat soukhs and they were common in Sanaa. This was an attempt to paraphase with exaggeration to highlight my surprise at finding these are quite common.
Regards
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Sorry Ibrahiim,
I agree you did not say South Arabia was "awash" with them. But you did say there were dozens in the Muscat soukhs and they were common in Sanaa. This was an attempt to paraphase with exaggeration to highlight my surprise at finding these are quite common.
Regards
Richard

Salaams Richard G... Ah that was the souk in Muttrah ... I had about 20 of them lined up there but couldnt decide to take any but they told me they had got them in Sanaa...or through a Sanaa trader. The project weapon indeed looks like its got Hyena wrapped about the base. I dont know enough about these scabbards and to what extent the strange collar is original but it may be... I just cant imagine going in to bat with a soft silver content sleeve as an extension of the iron cuff... I remain puzzled about that .
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Richard G... Ah that was the souk in Muttrah ... I had about 20 of them lined up there but couldnt decide to take any but they told me they had got them in Sanaa...or through a Sanaa trader. The project weapon indeed looks like its got Hyena wrapped about the base. I dont know enough about these scabbards and to what extent the strange collar is original but it may be... I just cant imagine going in to bat with a soft silver content sleeve as an extension of the iron cuff... I remain puzzled about that .
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim. I agree with your comment about the silver collar being fragile in combat, but we are of course assuming that it was always there. My thinking is that it was possibly added later, perhaps to embellish the sword for dress wear rather than combat use. Either way, it obviously belongs to the particlar hilt, as it fits snugly. As you will be aware, many swords are "dressed up" so that they look impressive when worn.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim. I agree with your comment about the silver collar being fragile in combat, but we are of course assuming that it was always there. My thinking is that it was possibly added later, perhaps to embellish the sword for dress wear rather than combat use. Either way, it obviously belongs to the particlar hilt, as it fits snugly. As you will be aware, many swords are "dressed up" so that they look impressive when worn.
Stu

Salaams kahnjar1 Yes agreed on the later addition of the silver collar adornment which is completely in keeping with add-ons to weapons of the region.

On reflection it could simply be a clever later add-on to better secure the sword in its scabbard.

I think the region is the area in Saudia that was once Yemen and from which Habaabi (the main city) gives its name to the dagger "The Habaabi". The main port is Jazzan. From the viewpoint of Ethnographic Arms I think this region is timelocked.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams kahnjar1 Yes agreed on the later addition of the silver collar adornment which is completely in keeping with add-ons to weapons of the region.

On reflection it could simply be a clever later add-on to better secure the sword in its scabbard.

I think the region is the area in Saudia that was once Yemen and from which Habaabi (the main city) gives its name to the dagger "The Habaabi". The main port is Jazzan. From the viewpoint of Ethnographic Arms I think this region is timelocked.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim, I note that you have refered to Habaabi as a region/city a number of times in various posts you have made.
Can you please post a map showing this region/city, as any time I have GOOGLEd it, there is no reference to any such place.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim, I note that you have refered to Habaabi as a region/city a number of times in various posts you have made.
Can you please post a map showing this region/city, as any time I have GOOGLEd it, there is no reference to any such place.
Stu

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ It was indeed a very tricky place to pin down not least because of the spurious indicators on the web and its seemingly mythical situation, however, it is in fact south west of Ta' izz between there and the Red Sea coast. I will make that very clear it is in Yemen. Hababi city appears to have given its name to the dagger of an extensive region which after about 1920 was incorporated into Saudi Arabia (The Asir border region etc) Clearly the whole region now stradles both borders ..The map of the region is at http://mapcarta.com/12505012 but there is very little detail other than some stuff I posted on The Omani Khanjar site and which I have now corrected.
I believe Jazan was a major contributor to Muscat/ Yemen / Arabia trade in history and was a key stop on the trade route to Zanzibar and Africa. Moreover it would have been a major drop off point connecting to the massive camel trains going north since the prevailing almost 24/7 and year round winds prevailed from almost due North preventing sailing ships from accessing direct to Ports in the North.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim, I note that you have refered to Habaabi as a region/city a number of times in various posts you have made.
Can you please post a map showing this region/city, as any time I have GOOGLEd it, there is no reference to any such place.
Stu

There is a city apparently called Al Hababi SW of Ta'izz. Is this the place you refer to?
http://www.newstrackindia.com/inform...-al-hababi.htm