Moro Kris Silver Dots and Inlay

[T. Koch]

Originally Posted by Rick

Would this ship without Customs inspection within the E.U. ?
Anyone ?

It wouldn't slip past me that's for sure. And I seriously doubt that a lot of other CITES M.A.s' wouldn't spot it either, but I guess it depends on the country and how well they're staffed. Here in DK, a long heavy package would already be marked by the customs officials, due to our draconian weapons legislation, and as such warrant closer inspection.

I think in this case, it's just a mess-up on Christies' account. After all, the headline do clearly say 'ivory' and they have that paragraph on CITES.

Often I fear more for my fellow collectors ordering from smaller dealers and Ebay-sellers. 'Bone', 'Fish tooth', 'Exotic horn' 'I*o*y', etc., may fool the rabid animal-right hippies trawling the net for eeeeevil traders in poor animals, but it will not fool a CITES-inspection at the border.

Without that CITES-export permit in the package (and in the case of Appendix I/Annex A material, a corresponding import-permit) it's bye-bye awesome sword or keris, and it's then gone for good. It's especially stupid and sad, since these things that we love mostly predate 1947 and as such are perfectly legal to trade in. There is no excuse for not getting that permit, but sheer lazyness or simply being too stingy with ones buyer.

Geeting back OT, hooooly crap that is an awesome sword!! One day when I'm rich, I'll be getting me one of those ivory jungayans for myself!


All the best, - Thor

[David]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

There is no excuse for not getting that permit, but sheer lazyness or simply being too stingy with ones buyer.

What does it cost to get such a permit. Not really an excuse if you have the money to lay out almost $10,000 for such a sword, but probably the reason the average buyer doesn't do it. And the buyer is sometimes half way around the world. Doesn't the seller need to be the one to pursue such a permit since the sword is in their hands? Most sellers aren't interested in pursuing such a thing. So i think it is really the sellers who are lazy.
I know for sure that quite a bit of ivory comes into the USA right past customs through all kinds of delivery systems. Don't know how or even if they really check packages that come into this country for ivory parts. They may be more thorough in other countries.

[T. Koch]

Originally Posted by David

What does it cost to get such a permit. Not really an excuse if you have the money to lay out almost $10,000 for such a sword, but probably the reason the average buyer doesn't do it. And the buyer is sometimes half way around the world. Doesn't the seller need to be the one to pursue such a permit since the sword is in their hands? Most sellers aren't interested in pursuing such a thing. So i think it is really the sellers who are lazy.
I know for sure that quite a bit of ivory comes into the USA right past customs through all kinds of delivery systems. Don't know how or even if they really check packages that come into this country for ivory parts. They may be more thorough in other countries.

Yes, the CITES-export permit must be issued by the authority in the country from which the item is exported and my point was also that application for one is the responsibility of any decent seller. Depending on the material and the country of import however, a corresponding CITES-import permit might also be needed, so as a buyer it definitely pays to check up with your local authority. Having to confiscate awesome antiques is just so damn meaningless, but I guess it's also because I can personally really relate to the disappointment of the importer/collector.

I know the cost of a permit is £45,- in the UK, while here in the socialist regime that I call home, its free. But then again, we also have the world's highest most crushing personal tax pressure, so I really don't have my arms up in celebration over that fact. I don't know about prices in the US, although I'd be curious to find out.


Take care, - Thor

[Sajen]

I just have done some google research. In Germany it is like this: first you need a expertise from a expert. With this you have to go to a special board where you get the cites paper. This is possible with ivory which is from before 1947 but as well for ivory with a age between 1947 and 1976. The cost for expertise and cites paper will be between 80,- and 100,- Euro.

[T. Koch]

Ah cool, thanks Detlef. At the CITES Authority here in DK we have the capacity to do the evaluation for the citizens in house, i.e. by the sharp eye of Yours Truly!


Have a great day, - Thor