Deop Gunsmith Family of Catalonia

[Fernando K]

Dear Fernando (and Dana)

Pedrenyal: I would like to copy a paragraph of "Pistoles, trabucs i pedrenyals", Marti, Salas y Calvo:

"to segleXVI mecanisme Europaun apareix to the Company of roda (Wheellock), CAPAC, l'accumulating energy per produiruna ignico necessaria instantly into a weapon, the senzill amb pressionar actions of a lever.

A Pedrenyal lánomena Catalunya, he adopts Coneix i ben aviat particulars i definedes reports that the equivalent seus dels differentiate the remainder of Europe.

To the rest of the Iberian Peninsula hom produceix poques armes de roda molt, molts coneixem envi sa Catalunya armes suministraven PEDRINYALERS that the civilian population, which aquestes armes ja mai will be considerades per a U.S. military "

Lavin, page 230 of his book:
"Locally, Were These pistols called" flintlocks ""

Encyclopedic Dizionario Italiano:
Petrinale (or pettrinale): S.M. fr. petrinal, che dallo pedrenal inglese "pietra focaia". Schioppeto to ruota, etc.

Don Quixote, Part Two, Madrid, 1615:
"He slept standing, interropiendo sleep, moving from place to place: everything was put spies, sentries hear blowing ropes muskets, Traian auque few because everyone served flintlocks"

SERRALLER: in the quoted text is differentiated from "panyetariue", so I think you should refer to
Traductor de Google para empresas:Translator ToolkitTraductor de sitios webGlobal Market Finder

[Fernando K]

Dicho italiano:

TRADUTORE, TRADITTORE (traductor, traidor) Translator, betrayer

Fernando K

[fernando]

Well, in the true sense of the term ...
1 - A pedrenyal (Castillian pedreñal - Portuguese petronel) doesn't distinguish the ignition system per se. The term derives from the French petrinel or poitrinal (Latin pectus), meaning that you shot the weapon with the butt against the chest. They are either found in matchlock and flintlock. The sclopus was the prototype of the petronel. The petronel is a compromise between the harquebus and the pistol.
I personnaly doubt the matchlock mention; would better understand wheelock.

2 - What Lavin says in page 230 that the pedreñal (pedrenyal) refers to the ignition system, as the term derives from the Latin petrinus (stone, hence flint), we have somehow a contradiction to the first version.
Cervantes mentions that the bandits had fewer haquebuts than pistoletes (locally called pedrenãles). But he doesn't specify whether these were wheelocks or flintlocks, both igniting with a flint.

3 - One certain thing we may infer is that, the pedrenyal=pedreñal=petronel was a huge hand firearm, an (one of) ancestor of the pistol. The ignition system had to do with specific provenances, fashions and their relative technology evolution.

[fernando]

I still think the difference between Panyetaire and Serraller resides only in the idiomatic attribution to the trade.
Although Panyetair is specificaly a gun lock maker, Serraller (Serralheiro in Portuguese) defines a lock smith in general; hoewever for this specific case, meaning a gun lock smith.
... But Fernando K is right, TRADUTORE = TRADITORE, an allusion i often quote myself

[Fernando K]

Queridos Fernando (y Dana)

l - Respecto a la etimología de la palabra PEDREÑAL =PEDRENYAL hay dos teorías: que deriva de PECHO=POITRINE o que deriva de PIEDRA y esta del griego PIEDRA (no sé escribir en griego), ("petra focaia", en italiano) y se refiere a la pirita. Opto por la segunda.

2 - LAVIN, en pág. 230, se refiere a las pocas (4) armas de rueda españolas que existen en los Museos
1 - La Nº M 487 del Victoria y Alberto de Londres
2- La N2 K 42 de la Real Armería de Madrid
3 - La Nº 1874-31 en el Royal Scottish Museum, Edimburgo
4 - La Nº 1430 en el Museo Cívico Correr de Venecia

"Locally, these pistols were called "pedreñales"" (pedrenyal, en catalán)

3 - Estoy de acuerdo; la palabra "pedrenyal" pasó a armas de otro tipo de ignción, como la de la primera imagen del post anterior, "pany de transitio" y la segunda "fecho de molihas".

[Fernando K]

Dear Fernando (and Dana)

l - Regarding the etymology of the word PEDREÑAL = Pedrenyal, there are two theories: that derived from CHEST = Poitrine, or stone and is derived from the Greek STONE (can't write in Greek), ("petra focaia" in Italian) and refers to pyrite. I chose the latter.

2 - LAVIN, at p. 230 refers to the short (4) Spanish wheelock arms which exist in Museums
1 - The M No. 487 of Victoria and Albert in London
2 - The N2 K 42 of the Royal Armoury of Madrid
3 - No. 1874-31 at the Royal Scottish Museum, Edinburgh
4 - No. 1430 in the Museo Civico Correr in Venice

"Locally, these pistols were called" flintlocks "" (Pedrenyal, in Catalan)

3 - I agree, the term "Pedrenyal" became a weapon of other ignition systems , as the first image of the previous post, "Pany of Transitio" and the second, that of "molinhas".

Affectionately. Fernando k

[Miqueleter]

Dana et al

I had my cyber friend and ISIFIF member Alfredo translate the generic Deop entry that Dana posted and this is what he came up with. I have not looked into his trouble with the Roman numbers (as they confuse me to no end). Please comment on apparent errors in his translation, if found. Thanks

(DEOP) Lineage of firearm masters who started in Ripoll mid XVX century (the roman numerals don't make sense XVX, if the V was I instead, then it would be nineteen century, same as xrx, replace r with I) where it kept going well into the nineteen century. Seem to be originated in Central Europe and there were three Deep -Pedro, Arnaldo and Gimido- who settled in that village/ city. This last name was frequent among the gunsmiths ripollenses, (from Ripoll) who especialized in <<pany>> reason they were called <<panyetaires>> just like other lineages specialized in <<enceps>> or in <<cenons>>. Their trademark abound in guns that came from Ripoll until our times.

[Fernando K]

Migueleter at al:

"cenons" not. CANONS Yes (barrel)

Afectuosamente. Fernando K