Sundanga from Sulawesi for comment

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VVV

Maurice,

Except the silver (instead of horn) used for the hilts there also seems to be a difference in the shapes of the end of the hilts between the Sundanese and Makassarese versions.
However, the scabbards and blades don't seem to differ, like you wrote.

Michael

OK Michael.

Ofcourse there lived a lot of Europeans in Batavia (nowadays Jakarta).
I've wrote that most Europeans who lived in Celebes, lived around Makassar.
People came in on Batavia, and from there they spread over the Indonesian archipellago, and a lot of them to the region around Makassar.

Maybe this could be the link between the swords. The Europeans often took their Javanese servants with them...... Could it be that the Celebes natives liked their swords and took it over including giving them the "Celebes touch"?

[Maurice]

Hi guys,

I'm still not convinced. As I have another theory on these...

I agree the one from Marco and Charles are from Celebes.
But I'm not convinced the ones from Detlef and Bill are.
I think they both come from Java.

When searching the Leiden database because of my study project at the moment, I found one similar as Detlef's nice sword.

For what it's worth (as pieces were labeled from origine where they were collected and not where they were made and used), this one was collected in Bandung and donated to the Leiden museum by Dr. J. Groneman in 1892.
Unfortunately it isn't described in the Juynbollen, so no further info available I'm afraid....

[VVV]

Hi Maurice,

Like you wrote, we all know how the origin/collection works in the Leiden catalogues. This implies that we need more than one weapon to make a guideline (in both ways).

Michael

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Maurice,

Like you wrote, we all know how the origin/collection works in the Leiden catalogues. This implies that we need more than one weapon to make a guideline (in both ways).

Michael

Hi Michael,

I agree fulltime with you that we need more weapons and the best with provenance.
Who knows what turns up in future...

Maurice

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Michael,

I agree fulltime with you that we need more weapons and the best with provenance.
Who knows what turns up in future...

Maurice

Agree complete with you Maurice!

[Maurice]

Found this on my search......
A very old drawing, no info further

[Maurice]

And another one!

Text says: Lac Taman - P. Lomprong

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi guys,

I'm still not convinced. As I have another theory on these...

I agree the one from Marco and Charles are from Celebes.
But I'm not convinced the ones from Detlef and Bill are.
I think they both come from Java.

When searching the Leiden database because of my study project at the moment, I found one similar as Detlef's nice sword.

For what it's worth (as pieces were labeled from origine where they were collected and not where they were made and used), this one was collected in Bandung and donated to the Leiden museum by Dr. J. Groneman in 1892.
Unfortunately it isn't described in the Juynbollen, so no further info available I'm afraid....

Wow, very identical. Now i get some doubts as well. On the labe is written "Celebes Pedang Bengkok from 1840"! Bengkok is to my knowledge situated by Bandung!!! Very confusing.

Thank you very much for posting this sword.

Regards,

Detlef