Sundanga from Sulawesi for comment

[VVV]

Nice sword Detlef!

I would also place it as Makassar.

Michael

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VVV

Nice sword Detlef!

I would also place it as Makassar.

Michael

Hello Michael, I am sure we are correct. Here what Sipakatuo have written: "Sudanga the same as Kelewang/Parang. Makassar and Bugis people called Sudanga or Alameng. Sudanga wear by Chieftain or Panglima Perang/Ade Pitue (Member of tetua adat) therefore it is also a symbol of leadership. Not many people know about the shape of Sudanga/Alameng because of its prestige (produce limited). Congrats!.
" about the sword from Marco in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=sulawesi
See also the affinity from the embossings from both hilts.
And now I am sure that also the beautiful sword from Bill Marsh, shown here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=sulawesi
belong to this family of swords.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Here the three swords side by side for a easy view.

Hope it is ok for Charles that I have add his one to the overview!

[Maurice]

Congrats with this very beautifull sword Detlef!

Never would have thought it to be from Celebes.
My first (immediate) thoughts were that it must be from Java.
And this is why:

1: When looking at the "Tjikeroe" shaped blades I see similarities with these pieces.

2: Also the scabbard is almost identical as the very early pedangs of Java that had been discussed on this forum somewhere before.

3: Also when looking at the handle of Bill's piece, I see similarities as the birdheads handles on some of the Tjikeroe goloks.
And the shape of Marco's handle can be derived from those very early pedangs of Java that had been discussed on this forum before (see my point 2... )



But..... it seemed that you all are convinced it to be from Makassar, so it probably is......
Could you let me know if there's any info about it to study in articles and/or pictures?

Very interesting and lovely sword!
Probably a good studypiece for me...

PS. I can't recall that I've seen any piece of Celebes with suassa......??

[Sajen]

Hi Maurice,

read the two threads I have given the links. I am very inclined to believe the the statement from Sipakatuo since he is from Sulawesi and the co author from the book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis". I will contact him via pm and email if he can have a look and can give us further informations.
BTW, there was a old collection label by the sword where it is written that it is a "Celebes Pedang Bengkok from 1840". The sword coming from an old netherlands collection.
I am as well never have seen swassa/suassa by Sulawesi pieces, but the small ring at the handle is.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Hi Detlef,

I love those old tags! Keep it with the sword...

Yes I've read the two other threads, and I agree they must be from Celebes than.
But there are those strong resemblances with Javanese swords/pedangs, that there must be a connection somewhere, somehow (as Michael also stated in one of the other threads).

I attached an image of some weapons of the governor of Bandung from about 1880.
Here you see the "Javanese" brothers (three on the left and four pieces at the right) standing upright (but they miss the "Celebes touch" what can be seen on the three mentioned).

My feeling is that they also are all pre 1850 and very old, and must be connected somehow with the Celebes ones....
(just my guess, open for discussion ofcourse)

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Detlef,

I love those old tags! Keep it with the sword...

Yes I've read the two other threads, and I agree they must be from Celebes than.
But there are those strong resemblances with Javanese swords/pedangs, that there must be a connection somewhere, somehow (as Michael also stated in one of the other threads).

I attached an image of some weapons of the governor of Bandung from about 1880.
Here you see the "Javanese" brothers (three on the left and four pieces at the right) standing upright (but they miss the "Celebes touch" what can be seen on the three mentioned).

My feeling is that they also are all pre 1850 and very old, and must be connected somehow with the Celebes ones....
(just my guess, open for discussion ofcourse)

Hi Maurice,

yes I know this Sunda swords called sintoeng like shown from Gene in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=sintoeng and agree that there are a lot of affinity between them and special the one from Marco. And like you I believe that there is a connection between them.

Best,

Detlef