An actual New Land pattern pistol

fernando · 20th January 2013, 12:45 PM

Thank you Fernando K,
I am aware of all the bullet raming operation with theses devices.
The thing is that, in non British ramrods that i have and also according to the book i have read, the wider (outer) end is narrow enough to do itself the raming, and also possible to operate with the device articulation, which functions both ways.
When raming with the wide end, you may hold the rod holdinging it with your fingers, instead of with the palm of your hand ... i guess like you do with musket rods.

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kronckew · 20th January 2013, 08:02 PM

having owned & fired black powder pistols from single shot smoothbores to colt walkers, and rifled muskets, one thing i was taught early on was to NOT palm the ramrod. it's a good way to lose a hand. fingering it you only lose a finger or two in case it discharges. palming may also exert excessive compression on the charge, and friction between the grains of powder and the bore can set off the charge. it might not happen often but once is too many.

ramrods were a pain in more than the hand in battle. adrenalin pumped soldiers frequently skipped little loading steps like removing the ramrod & wound up firing it down range. doing that with an articulated ramrod could ruin your day. at the least you are out of action till you can pick up someone else's ramrod. soldiers on the other side were sometimes speared by the opposition's ramrods. probably better than getting hit with a dirty great lead ball tho. sergeants checking troopers weapons sometimes found they had forgot to prime or fire between loadings, and had 5 or 6 charges stacked up in the barrel.

if the ramrod doesn't full go down the bore, you might have more in there than you think.

fernando · 20th January 2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... sergeants checking troopers weapons sometimes found they had forgot to prime or fire between loadings, and had 5 or 6 charges stacked up in the barrel....

It is also said that soldiers who were conscience opposers or simply wouldn't dare shooting, kept on loading their (non fired) weapons to ilude their sergeant.

kronckew · 21st January 2013, 08:19 AM

this did give an inventor an idea. one of the first attempts at a rapid fire multi shot weapon was a series of stacked charges and projectiles with touch holes located in the propellant section of each charge, and a sliding ignition system that was moved back after each shot. it never caught on. photo attached below.

oddly enough, there is a modern equivalent that progressed from that idea. it is called 'metal storm' which combines the stacked charge idea with the french multi-barrel mitrailleuse volley gun and an electronic firing system, and can adjustably burst fire up to one million rounds per minute. if you've not seen one in action, youtube has scads of videos.

the electronic system allows anything from 1 to 1x10^6 rpm, and can fire in waves, and patterns. rifles, pistols and 40mm grenade launchers are available.

fernando · 21st January 2013, 02:17 PM

I take it that you can not fire one of these if you are drunk. Have to be in a bright state of mind to avoid shooting the thing in the wrong sequence order ... assuming that it won't betray your best intention and burst itself due to vicinity effects

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kronckew · 21st January 2013, 07:17 PM

i think it was ratcheted to only go from front to back after loading. best not to have a glass of port or three before using it though.

the main reason it was not popular was it's nasty habit of roman candling. each charge rapidly setting off the one behind as a result of windage. instant but unexpected machine gun (MG). misfires were a bit annoying too. and it took a while to reload.

'metal storm' got around that MG problem by adding a seal of some sort that seats on the projectile nose and which then keeps the explosion in front of it from flashing over as the pressure seats the seal further. reloads are easier as they come pre-stacked in a tube which is inserted from the breech.

20th January 2013, 12:45 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Fernando K, I am aware of all the bullet raming operation with theses devices. The thing is that, in non British ramrods that i have and also according to the book i have read, the wider (outer) end is narrow enough to do itself the raming, and also possible to operate with the device articulation, which functions both ways. When raming with the wide end, you may hold the rod holdinging it with your fingers, instead of with the palm of your hand ... i guess like you do with musket rods. . Attached Images

21st January 2013, 08:19 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	this did give an inventor an idea. one of the first attempts at a rapid fire multi shot weapon was a series of stacked charges and projectiles with touch holes located in the propellant section of each charge, and a sliding ignition system that was moved back after each shot. it never caught on. photo attached below. oddly enough, there is a modern equivalent that progressed from that idea. it is called 'metal storm' which combines the stacked charge idea with the french multi-barrel mitrailleuse volley gun and an electronic firing system, and can adjustably burst fire up to one million rounds per minute. if you've not seen one in action, youtube has scads of videos. the electronic system allows anything from 1 to 1x10^6 rpm, and can fire in waves, and patterns. rifles, pistols and 40mm grenade launchers are available. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 21st January 2013 at 08:35 AM.

21st January 2013, 02:17 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I take it that you can not fire one of these if you are drunk. Have to be in a bright state of mind to avoid shooting the thing in the wrong sequence order ... assuming that it won't betray your best intention and burst itself due to vicinity effects . . Last edited by fernando; 21st January 2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: spell

20th January 2013, 08:02 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	having owned & fired black powder pistols from single shot smoothbores to colt walkers, and rifled muskets, one thing i was taught early on was to NOT palm the ramrod. it's a good way to lose a hand. fingering it you only lose a finger or two in case it discharges. palming may also exert excessive compression on the charge, and friction between the grains of powder and the bore can set off the charge. it might not happen often but once is too many. ramrods were a pain in more than the hand in battle. adrenalin pumped soldiers frequently skipped little loading steps like removing the ramrod & wound up firing it down range. doing that with an articulated ramrod could ruin your day. at the least you are out of action till you can pick up someone else's ramrod. soldiers on the other side were sometimes speared by the opposition's ramrods. probably better than getting hit with a dirty great lead ball tho. sergeants checking troopers weapons sometimes found they had forgot to prime or fire between loadings, and had 5 or 6 charges stacked up in the barrel. if the ramrod doesn't full go down the bore, you might have more in there than you think.

21st January 2013, 07:17 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	i think it was ratcheted to only go from front to back after loading. best not to have a glass of port or three before using it though. the main reason it was not popular was it's nasty habit of roman candling. each charge rapidly setting off the one behind as a result of windage. instant but unexpected machine gun (MG). misfires were a bit annoying too. and it took a while to reload. 'metal storm' got around that MG problem by adding a seal of some sort that seats on the projectile nose and which then keeps the explosion in front of it from flashing over as the pressure seats the seal further. reloads are easier as they come pre-stacked in a tube which is inserted from the breech.