A firangi blade or??

Battara · 26th September 2005, 08:31 PM

Crap....drooled on the keyboard again.

Jim McDougall · 27th September 2005, 02:12 AM

Battara, me too!!! Think we're gonna have a bunch of shorted out keyboards!!!

Jens,
That is most likely a Solingen trade blade, as they were typically using Spanish names and mottos at this time in the 18th century. It would be difficult to assign to a particular maker unless there was a key marking separate on the blade somewhere, but most of the time they only carried these spurious inscriptions. These blades seem to date from Solingen from latter 17th to early 18th century, and the Spanish name thing seems to account for a lot of the blades found on Scottish swords of this period too.
Even if we can match the name it is unlikely going to be that of the maker of the blade unfortunately.

This sword is incredible....centerfold material!!!

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 27th September 2005, 05:18 PM

Thanks for the mails, yes it is a rather nice firangi, and there is no reason to show the blade, as the stamp and the hilt is by far the most interesting.
Tim, you are right, it can be dogs, that is why I put the questionmark.

ksbhati · 3rd October 2005, 10:44 PM

Hi Jens,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I have been very busy lately and dont get much time to visit. Umm though it was not uncommon to copy european blades, it was relatively rare to mark them with english/latin letters (basically because the smiths who would be producing them did not know a word of English and you would be able to spot the copy invariably). This does not mean that they were not marked as such, but only that it was relatively un-common.

To comment on some of the other questions raised...and I would be surmising here to some extent so bear with me. Good quality wootz blade production was dwindling sometime around the late eighteenth early nineteenth century. Also, around this time good quality european blades were more easily available, what with the thriving east west trade (We were well into the colonial era by now). There is no doubt that the european blades were of good quality and very hardy. Also, to some extent it may have been fashionable to own one.

I would like to mention that I have seen some of the most exquisite Mughal/Rajput era sword hilts with old 'Genoa' blades. These blades were curved and had a shape like the usual Tulwar blades?? I was really surprised as the quality of the Hilts along with the matching scabbard mounts were of astonishing quality and undoubtedly from the seventeenth century or earlier. I would normally have expected the hilts to be mounted on the highest quality wootz blades...but they werent?? I have seen at least four examples and all have old 'Genoa' blades. So undoubtedly highly quality european blades were prized by the Indians even though good quality wootz was available here

. I wonder if anybody has any views on 'Genoa' blades in Indian Hilts...has anyone else seen any?

Best regards,

Karni

26th September 2005, 08:31 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Crap....drooled on the keyboard again.

27th September 2005, 02:12 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Battara, me too!!! Think we're gonna have a bunch of shorted out keyboards!!! Jens, That is most likely a Solingen trade blade, as they were typically using Spanish names and mottos at this time in the 18th century. It would be difficult to assign to a particular maker unless there was a key marking separate on the blade somewhere, but most of the time they only carried these spurious inscriptions. These blades seem to date from Solingen from latter 17th to early 18th century, and the Spanish name thing seems to account for a lot of the blades found on Scottish swords of this period too. Even if we can match the name it is unlikely going to be that of the maker of the blade unfortunately. This sword is incredible....centerfold material!!! All the best, Jim

27th September 2005, 05:18 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thanks for the mails, yes it is a rather nice firangi, and there is no reason to show the blade, as the stamp and the hilt is by far the most interesting. Tim, you are right, it can be dogs, that is why I put the questionmark.

3rd October 2005, 10:44 PM	#4
ksbhati Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rajasthan, INDIA Posts: 25	Hi Jens, Sorry for the delay in responding. I have been very busy lately and dont get much time to visit. Umm though it was not uncommon to copy european blades, it was relatively rare to mark them with english/latin letters (basically because the smiths who would be producing them did not know a word of English and you would be able to spot the copy invariably). This does not mean that they were not marked as such, but only that it was relatively un-common. To comment on some of the other questions raised...and I would be surmising here to some extent so bear with me. Good quality wootz blade production was dwindling sometime around the late eighteenth early nineteenth century. Also, around this time good quality european blades were more easily available, what with the thriving east west trade (We were well into the colonial era by now). There is no doubt that the european blades were of good quality and very hardy. Also, to some extent it may have been fashionable to own one. I would like to mention that I have seen some of the most exquisite Mughal/Rajput era sword hilts with old 'Genoa' blades. These blades were curved and had a shape like the usual Tulwar blades?? I was really surprised as the quality of the Hilts along with the matching scabbard mounts were of astonishing quality and undoubtedly from the seventeenth century or earlier. I would normally have expected the hilts to be mounted on the highest quality wootz blades...but they werent?? I have seen at least four examples and all have old 'Genoa' blades. So undoubtedly highly quality european blades were prized by the Indians even though good quality wootz was available here . I wonder if anybody has any views on 'Genoa' blades in Indian Hilts...has anyone else seen any? Best regards, Karni