Oddity

[Jean]

I never saw any similar piece myself, but let us wait what Alan has to say about it. It should be noted that the 2 blades are very different.
This imaginative style of carving looks more likely to be Madurese than Northern Javanese to me and the hilt is an indication but I could be wrong
I attach the picture of a typical specimen of traditional Ganesha hilt atributed to Cirebon for comparison.
Regards

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

It should be noted that the 2 blades are very different.
This imaginative style of carving looks more likely to be Madurese than Northern Javanese to me and the hilt is an indication but I could be wrong

Hello Jean,

the blade from the keris shown in the book from Frey isn't to seen, the blade on my photo isn't the one which belong to the sheath. (See the hilts)

But you're correct by the hilts, both more Madura or North-East coast style, tomorrow I can show pictures.

BTW, I think I have seen here in the forum once a similar sheath, but can't remember where and may be wrong.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Jean,

the blade from the keris shown in the book from Frey isn't to seen, the blade on my photo isn't the one which belong to the sheath. (See the hilts)
Regards,

Detlef

Hello Detlef,
Sorry for my mistake, the hilts looked the same but they are not indeed and I wondered how such a wide blade could fit into the sheath
Regards

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

BTW, I think I have seen here in the forum once a similar sheath, but can't remember where and may be wrong.

My remembering was ok, here is the thread and it is exactly the keris which is now in the hands from Rick: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=madura+sheath

Now I know from which large quality collection this keris coming!

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Sajen

My remembering was ok, here is the thread and it is exactly the keris which is now in the hands from Rick: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=madura+sheath

Now I know from which large quality collection this keris coming!

Nice job with the wayback machine, Professor Peabody .
I had forgotten completely about that thread .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Nice job with the wayback machine, Professor Peabody .
I had forgotten completely about that thread .

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Hmmmm ..... looks like another 'he said' ..... 'she said' ..... 'they wrote' ..... 'I read' .....

For what it's worth, please bear in mind:

Kerises with blades around 40cm long were not rare among pre1600 Prbu-class of the Sunda.

The motif of the scabbard was typical. It represented a particular species of treefern indigenous to the highlands of Sunda.

As for the hilt, bear in mind that the Sunda, for hundreds of years, traded along the sealanes (which took in the north coast of Java) from Sumatera to the Nusa Tenggara.

..... apologies for the interruption ..... please continue .....

AND A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

Best,

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo everybody!

Kerises with blades around 40cm long were not rare among pre1600 Prbu-class of the Sunda.

The motif of the scabbard was typical. It represented a particular species of treefern indigenous to the highlands of Sunda.

Hello Amuk,
Thank you for your interesting information about the origin of this sheath! So you mean the Interior of West Java (Priangan/ Bandung/ Bogor) but not Cirebon, right?
We often neglect the krisses from West Java because little has been written about them.....
I quite don't understand the relevance of your comment about the blades, the one from Rick does not seem that long nor old?
Regards

[Sajen]

Here three more handle in the form the both shown keris have and Jean have shown in post # 7, normally attributed to Madura.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Amuk,
Thank you for your interesting information about the origin of this sheath! So you mean the Interior of West Java (Priangan/ Bandung/ Bogor) but not Cirebon, right?
We often neglect the krisses from West Java because little has been written about them.....
I quite don't understand the relevance of your comment about the blades, the one from Rick does not seem that long nor old?
Regards

Hello Jean,

I'll be as brief as I can, as I don't like to 'proslytize'.

When I say 'Sunda', I mean it in the 'archaic' sense, i.e. west of the river Pamali in the northern-central to the west of the river Progo in the southern-central.
So, in this sense, Cirebon is included.(Remember, its royal household is descended from Sri Baduga's son, who was it's first ruler after he had caused it to secede from the confederation; even though, today, it is more Djawa than Sunda; courtesy of Sultan Agung of Mataram's pan-Djawaism)

By 'highlanders', I mean the people who lived around 'the mountains' to the west with the Bogor area as its 'hub' i.e. generally 'Old Sunda'.
By 'lowlanders', I mean the people who lived around 'the hills' to the east with the Ciamis area as its 'hub' i.e. generally 'New Sunda' ( Kuda Lalean, his people and their descendants; later arrivals as refugees).

Originally, the scabbard was made after the blade and usually by a different person. Thus the scabbard was made to suit the blade and its size was a 'true' reflection of the size of the blade.
So my comment about blade size was in response to Rick's about 'jumbo sized'.
As for the apparent 'mismatch' of size between the blade and the scabbard above, perhaps the most common example familiar to 'mainstream kerisology' is the 'Keris Tajong' . I refer to such 'anomalies' as 'gertak sambel' ('bluff factor').

Best,

[Jean]

Hello Amuk,
Thank you for the clarification.
And also thanks to Sajen for the link to the old thread about this piece (I missed it as I was not born as a member yet ) and the additional pictures of similar hilts.
Regards