Unusual ? Moro kris

ariel · 25th December 2012, 02:30 AM

First, thanks for your help with pics.
Very clever idea re. origin of holes. But, if so, it must be rather old, isn't it? To switch from the european blade to pata ( 19th cen at the latest), and then to move to Mindanao.

Battara · 25th December 2012, 05:23 AM

Lots of trade though in the region with India.......

Atlantia · 25th December 2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

First, thanks for your help with pics.
Very clever idea re. origin of holes. But, if so, it must be rather old, isn't it? To switch from the european blade to pata ( 19th cen at the latest), and then to move to Mindanao.

HI Ariel,
You are welcome.
I also have an interest in these 'anomalies' so it's always nice to see items like this one.

Sajen · 25th December 2012, 02:35 PM

Very intersting piece, thank you for posting. Haven't seen it!

Regards,

Detlef

Atlantia · 25th December 2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

First, thanks for your help with pics.
Very clever idea re. origin of holes. But, if so, it must be rather old, isn't it? To switch from the european blade to pata ( 19th cen at the latest), and then to move to Mindanao.

Hi Ariel,

Sorry, I meant to add the I don't see any reason why the blade couldn't be very old.
The surfaces have been reworked to make it into this incarnation and then it's been recently harshly cleaned hiding any signs of age by taking it all down to bare steel.

In one pic I can almost 'see' the outline of the reinforcing bracket over the blade, what do you think?

ariel · 25th December 2012, 03:27 PM

In my dilettante opinion, the entire wide part of the blade below the gangja was formed from a separate piece and the original blade was inserted and forged there.
If that was the case, I see no reason to see the holes in the original blade. No?

Also, I do not see the bracket; rather, it is a fuller, and it stops suddenly ~ 1/5 of the way from the gangya. That's one of the reasons I suggest the existence of a separate thick piece where the blade was inserted.

A.alnakkas · 25th December 2012, 03:31 PM

I like it.. But maybe not a trade blade? The holes could have fillers (silver/gold etc) I just cant see how the wide area is created without seeing any forge lines or the blade becoming slimmer there due to flattening that area.

ariel · 25th December 2012, 03:39 PM

I am with Lotfi .

ariel · 25th December 2012, 03:41 PM

And Spunger:-)
Sorry, the answers started to pour in.

Spunjer · 25th December 2012, 03:38 PM

ariel, i don't think it was an indian blade. i think at one point that particular kris has that fancy plate at the widest part of the blade, belonging in the category of this particular piece: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15535
kino's example on post#7 appears to have rivets (albeit his has 4 of them going down. yours might have just two ). the profile of the blade appears to be similar to mine in which it has a slight overall curve, and if you notice, a single groove on the lower edge.
the handle on that is oriented the wrong way, btw...

adding kino's example as well.

Atlantia · 25th December 2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

ariel, i don't think it was an indian blade. i think at one point that particular kris has that fancy plate at the widest part of the blade, belonging in the category of this particular piece: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15535
kino's example on post#7 appears to have rivets (albeit his has 4 of them going down. yours might have just two ). the profile of the blade appears to be similar to mine in which it has a slight overall curve, and if you notice, a single groove on the lower edge.
the handle on that is oriented the wrong way, btw...

adding kino's example as well.

Ah!
Excellent catch Spunjer,
That explains the 'outline' that I can see. Bravo

ariel · 25th December 2012, 04:49 PM

So, gentlemen, with all the pics, do you have an opinion on the age and value ( NOT MONETARY!) of this kris? Any thoughts on the origin of the blade? Rarity?

Sajen · 25th December 2012, 05:13 PM

With some restore work, the plates need to added as well the baca baca and the handle seem not original anymore. When this would be done it will be a very nice kris and also rare IMHO.

I think the blade is from Sulu. Age I would guess second half of the 19th century but there are members who will know it better.

Detlef

ariel · 25th December 2012, 08:15 PM

With all the changes, what would be left of it?

25th December 2012, 03:27 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	In my dilettante opinion, the entire wide part of the blade below the gangja was formed from a separate piece and the original blade was inserted and forged there. If that was the case, I see no reason to see the holes in the original blade. No? Also, I do not see the bracket; rather, it is a fuller, and it stops suddenly ~ 1/5 of the way from the gangya. That's one of the reasons I suggest the existence of a separate thick piece where the blade was inserted. Last edited by ariel; 25th December 2012 at 03:38 PM.

25th December 2012, 03:38 PM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ariel, i don't think it was an indian blade. i think at one point that particular kris has that fancy plate at the widest part of the blade, belonging in the category of this particular piece: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15535 kino's example on post#7 appears to have rivets (albeit his has 4 of them going down. yours might have just two ). the profile of the blade appears to be similar to mine in which it has a slight overall curve, and if you notice, a single groove on the lower edge. the handle on that is oriented the wrong way, btw... adding kino's example as well. Attached Images

25th December 2012, 02:30 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	First, thanks for your help with pics. Very clever idea re. origin of holes. But, if so, it must be rather old, isn't it? To switch from the european blade to pata ( 19th cen at the latest), and then to move to Mindanao.

25th December 2012, 05:23 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Lots of trade though in the region with India.......

25th December 2012, 02:35 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,415	Very intersting piece, thank you for posting. Haven't seen it! Regards, Detlef

25th December 2012, 03:31 PM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I like it.. But maybe not a trade blade? The holes could have fillers (silver/gold etc) I just cant see how the wide area is created without seeing any forge lines or the blade becoming slimmer there due to flattening that area.

25th December 2012, 03:39 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am with Lotfi .

25th December 2012, 03:41 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And Spunger:-) Sorry, the answers started to pour in.

25th December 2012, 04:49 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	So, gentlemen, with all the pics, do you have an opinion on the age and value ( NOT MONETARY!) of this kris? Any thoughts on the origin of the blade? Rarity?

25th December 2012, 05:13 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,415	With some restore work, the plates need to added as well the baca baca and the handle seem not original anymore. When this would be done it will be a very nice kris and also rare IMHO. I think the blade is from Sulu. Age I would guess second half of the 19th century but there are members who will know it better. Detlef

25th December 2012, 08:15 PM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	With all the changes, what would be left of it?