Swords from the Pacific brought back after WW2. ID help requested.

[brad2024]

Hello. I am new here and thank you for admitting me.

I have two swords that were brought back from the Pacific by my uncle after WW2. He told me that they were taken from the Philippines and I wondering if I could get some help in identifying the type of sword and possibly the origin and estimated time that they date to.

One of them, I believe, is a type of Bolo and the other is a Keris or Kris sword but I am not sure.

Any help will be appreciated.

(I am not sure if the pics are posted here or not. If not, I will try again.)

Thank you!

[kai]

Hello Brad,

Welcome to the forum!

I have two swords that were brought back from the Pacific by my uncle after WW2. He told me that they were taken from the Philippines and I wondering if I could get some help in identifying the type of sword and possibly the origin and estimated time that they date to.

One of them, I believe, is a type of Bolo and the other is a Keris or Kris sword but I am not sure.

Yes, that is a Moro kris. A kalis taluseko from the Sulu archipelago with horsehoof-shaped hilt made of horn (any tiny holes visible on the polygonal pommel?); the asang-asang appear to be aluminium and probably are later and rather crude replacements. I'm sure it would be worth to have some new ones made from silver before renewing the grip braiding. IMHO, this kris dates from the first half of the 20th century, most likely 1920-1930.

Seems like you can easily disassemble the kris and try a careful cleaning of the blade (removing rust is a must and I'd suggest to gently repolish the blade and stain/etch it for bringing out the lamination). BTW, what are the dimensions for both pieces?


The other piece is really neat - I like it! Haven't seen one with similarly oversized guard before. This seems to be Visayan (chisel-like edge profile) - maybe our specialists can narrow things down? The scabbard looks odd and could well be from around/before WW2 while the sundang itself might well be older...

Regards,
Kai

[brad2024]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Brad,

Welcome to the forum!



Yes, that is a Moro kris. A kalis taluseko from the Sulu archipelago with horsehoof-shaped hilt made of horn (any tiny holes visible on the polygonal pommel?); the asang-asang appear to be aluminium and probably are later and rather crude replacements. I'm sure it would be worth to have some new ones made from silver before renewing the grip braiding. IMHO, this kris dates from the first half of the 20th century, most likely 1920-1930.

Seems like you can easily disassemble the kris and try a careful cleaning of the blade (removing rust is a must and I'd suggest to gently repolish the blade and stain/etch it for bringing out the lamination). BTW, what are the dimensions for both pieces?


The other piece is really neat - I like it! Haven't seen one with similarly oversized guard before. This seems to be Visayan (chisel-like edge profile) - maybe our specialists can narrow things down? The scabbard looks odd and could well be from around/before WW2 while the sundang itself might well be older...

Regards,
Kai

Thank you for responding so quickly. I value the expert opinions from the members here.

There are some tiny holes visible on the pommel. What does that mean? Could it have been used for something else or was there something else attached? The Kris has a blade length of 17 5/8 inches from tip to the bottom of the handle. I appreciate your advise regarding cleaning the blade and replacing the asang-asang.

I agree that the second sword is very interesting. Is this a type of Bolo? I really do like the guard as well. I am wondering if the scabbard could have been made by the Japanese during the war. My uncle indicated that this was used by a Japanese officer but you know how those stories go.

Thank you!

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Yes, that is a Moro kris. A kalis taluseko from the Sulu archipelago with horsehoof-shaped hilt made of horn (any tiny holes visible on the polygonal pommel?); the asang-asang appear to be aluminium and probably are later and rather crude replacements. I'm sure it would be worth to have some new ones made from silver before renewing the grip braiding.

Just curious why you would recommend silver replacements. Do you think it is likely that the original asang-asang were silver. I would think that the use of silver or other precious metal would denote a certain sense of status that i am not convinced this blade ever held.

[Battara]

I agree with David - these asang-asang could be the originals. Need to see if the ganga is separate to be sure.

If separate, then they could be later.

Need close ups of the end of the blade where it goes into the hilt area to see.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree with David - these asang-asang could be the originals. Need to see if the ganga is separate to be sure.

If separate, then they could be later.

Need close ups of the end of the blade where it goes into the hilt area to see.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that the as sang-asang are original, though i suppose that is possible. I was more questioning if silver would be an appropriate metal to use in replacement on a sword that doesn't appear to be a weapon of status. I guess my own personal stance is that as a collector i am interested in perhaps returning a weapon to as close to it's original state as possible if it has fallen into disrepair, but i am very hesitant to upgrade the original status of that weapon with materials (silver, suasa, gemstones, etc.) that might be beyond the original status level of that weapon.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree with David - these asang-asang could be the originals. Need to see if the ganga is separate to be sure.

If separate, then they could be later.

Need close ups of the end of the blade where it goes into the hilt area to see.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that the asang-asang are original, though i suppose that is possible. I was more questioning if silver would be an appropriate metal to use in replacement on a sword that doesn't appear to be a weapon of status (i.e. datu). I guess my own personal stance is that as a collector i am interested in perhaps returning a weapon to as close to it's original state as possible if it has fallen into disrepair, but i am very hesitant to upgrade the original status of that weapon with materials (silver, suasa, gemstones, etc.) that might be beyond the original status level of that weapon.

[brad2024]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree with David - these asang-asang could be the originals. Need to see if the ganga is separate to be sure.

If separate, then they could be later.

Need close ups of the end of the blade where it goes into the hilt area to see.

I tried to take a couple of close up pictures of the asang-asang and the ganga to try and help.

I am most appreciative of the input.

As for the Bolo (I think) do you have any idea of the period and whether it may have been re-hilted? I am just wandering because I think it is a really interesting piece.

Thank you!