Bali ceremonial knife

Atlantia · 21st December 2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi buddy,

yes remember your both knifes. Both have the swastika ornament. The one from Charles have maybe lost the "monster" on it's spine or never have had it, I don't know. But on page 74 from the book "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago" is shown an example which also don't have this "monster" nor the swastika ornament.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef

I think these are really interesting. Is there a work that defines the various types and region specific variations?

ATB
Gene

Sajen · 21st December 2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Detlef

I think these are really interesting. Is there a work that defines the various types and region specific variations?

ATB
Gene

Hi Gene,

not that I am aware of. But one thing is to remark: To my knowledge have the Java wedung nothing to do with the Bali tiuk pengentas.
But like I have written before, my knowledge about both knifes is very limited.

Regards,

Detlef

Gustav · 21st December 2012, 11:11 PM

I suppose - more ornamentation - more magic content. I don't think, they all are equal. We have so far: plain blades (without the "head" embellishment), blades with ornamentation (with "head"), blades with ornamentation including "Banji", which is magically a VERY important ornament (with "head").

I know, it all sounds childish. It would be interesting to hear some thoughts of a Balinese, who would share his knowledge.

Sajen · 21st December 2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

It would be interesting to hear some thoughts of a Balinese, who would share his knowledge.

Hello Gustav,

will try to ask a Balinese I know if he can tell us more.

Regards,

Detlef

Atlantia · 22nd December 2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gene,

not that I am aware of. But one thing is to remark: To my knowledge have the Java wedung nothing to do with the Bali tiuk pengentas.
But like I have written before, my knowledge about both knifes is very limited.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

That's an interesting point. The other day I noticed this reply from Amuk in an old thread about my pair:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo again Gene,

FWIW ..... I refer to mine as Balinese Blakas.

Best,

I did mean to ask him but..... my old brain... forgets things.....

Are you saying the these are not 'Wedung'? but 'tiuk pengenta'?
It's not a term I've heard before

Can you elaborate please?

Thanks buddy
Gene

Sajen · 22nd December 2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Detlef,

That's an interesting point. The other day I noticed this reply from Amuk in an old thread about my pair:

I did mean to ask him but..... my old brain... forgets things.....

Are you saying the these are not 'Wedung'? but 'tiuk pengenta'?
It's not a term I've heard before

Can you elaborate please?

Thanks buddy
Gene

Hi Gene,

look post # 16 of this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13443, a name I have heard on Bali as well.

Regards,

Detlef

Atlantia · 22nd December 2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gene,

look post # 16 of this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13443, a name I have heard on Bali as well.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Thanks, that clears it up nicely.
So tiuk pengentas it is!

VVV · 22nd December 2012, 07:38 PM

I have noticed that the old ones usually don't have the swastika pattern, so maybe it's the other way around?
Here are two blurry cell phone pictures I shot when visiting the Klungkung palace museum. There seems to be a difference between the ceremonial axe and this "household knife", both in use and name.

Michael

PS I have one and used to have an additional that I traded. One is plain and the other have an ornamented blade. Both of them have this kind of scabbard, old style makara hilt, the "monster" protrusion and inlay on the back of the blade.
I suspect that the makara hilt, more than if there is inlay on the blade, is an age indicator.

Battara · 23rd December 2012, 02:10 AM

Ok, so this one I have was also used for funeral services as well?

I know it is ceremonial and like the one in your pictures above. Also there is heavily silver koftgari on both sides.

22nd December 2012, 07:38 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I have noticed that the old ones usually don't have the swastika pattern, so maybe it's the other way around? Here are two blurry cell phone pictures I shot when visiting the Klungkung palace museum. There seems to be a difference between the ceremonial axe and this "household knife", both in use and name. Michael PS I have one and used to have an additional that I traded. One is plain and the other have an ornamented blade. Both of them have this kind of scabbard, old style makara hilt, the "monster" protrusion and inlay on the back of the blade. I suspect that the makara hilt, more than if there is inlay on the blade, is an age indicator. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 22nd December 2012 at 07:49 PM. Reason: added PS

23rd December 2012, 02:10 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Ok, so this one I have was also used for funeral services as well? I know it is ceremonial and like the one in your pictures above. Also there is heavily silver koftgari on both sides. Attached Images

21st December 2012, 11:11 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I suppose - more ornamentation - more magic content. I don't think, they all are equal. We have so far: plain blades (without the "head" embellishment), blades with ornamentation (with "head"), blades with ornamentation including "Banji", which is magically a VERY important ornament (with "head"). I know, it all sounds childish. It would be interesting to hear some thoughts of a Balinese, who would share his knowledge.