which language it could be ?

VVV · 10th December 2012, 08:10 PM

OK,

Here is a copy from Canaan. It's in German but it gives you some ideas. The main thing is that it is based on the symbolism of the number 7.

Michael

Reference: Canaan, T. 1914. Aberglaube und Volksmedizin im Lande der Bibel. Hamburg: L. Friederichsen & Co.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

you will find all the pics in my thread "Need id and translation for a big blunderbuss."
Please tell me more if possible about this blunderbuss marks

Regards

Cerjak

VVV · 10th December 2012, 08:23 PM

Here I found a short explanation in French, too.
It's from Doutté and the square with the seals in is a version of the Latin square where, usually a formula or passage from the Qur'an, is repeated in such a way that the same symbol/word only occurs once in each direction.
If you combine the table from Canaan with the explanation from Doutté I think you will get most of it...

Michael

Reference: Doutté, Edmond. 1909. Magie & religion dans l’Afrique du Nord. Alger: Typographe Adolphe Jourdan.

Cerjak · 11th December 2012, 06:28 PM

I have to says that his discussion forum is really fantastic and I there is in this place so much knowledge ,Michael I have really appreciate your precious help ,I was not expect this documentation about pan-Islamic talismanic motifs and I can’t thank you enough for your answer. I was afraid that all those signs was without significations and now I will appreciate much more this Blunderbuss.

kind regards

Cerjak

TribalBlades · 11th December 2012, 07:18 PM

are these symbols by chance from pre-islamic times?

David · 11th December 2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalBlades

are these symbols by chance from pre-islamic times?

I'd say that would be very difficult to prove, though many occult minds like to believe these symbols ancient. Many of these magickal alphabets that are not from actual languages don't really appear in writing until the 15th or 16th centuries.
BTW, while certainly talismanic and i suppose technically a "seal" i would not refer to this as one of Solomon's seals. Originally Solomon's Seal was said to be a signet ring used to command spirits and demons. There have been many variations of the seal depicted over the centuries, most often in disk form as a medallion and featuring either the 6-pointed star of the pentagram.
http://www.google.com/search?q=seal+...w=1394&bih=768

VVV · 11th December 2012, 10:10 PM

David,

If you are referring to the Western Esotericism (i.e. Christian) and their, and later Jewish, versions of the stars in your link you might be correct about the age (and in most cases they are much later).
But in this case it is Islamic Esotericism. For instance the main Islamic authority, al-Buni died in 1225!
The 7 seals of Solomon was not his invention, even if he of course covers them in his works, which means that they are much older than this.
Your story about the signet ring is mentioned in text from Doutté above and it is the seal #1 of the traditional seven. It alternates in shape between the six-sided (Canaan) or the pentagram (Doutté).

Michael

VVV · 12th December 2012, 08:10 AM

I just double checked in a reference work on Islamic artifacts. According to Savage-Smith the 7 seals of Solomon first started to appear in the 12th century on talismans etc.

Michael

Reference: Savage-Smith, Emelie. 1997. Magic and Islam, in Francis Maddison and Emelie Savage-Smith (eds.). Science, Tools & Magic (The Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art). Part II. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

10th December 2012, 08:23 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here I found a short explanation in French, too. It's from Doutté and the square with the seals in is a version of the Latin square where, usually a formula or passage from the Qur'an, is repeated in such a way that the same symbol/word only occurs once in each direction. If you combine the table from Canaan with the explanation from Doutté I think you will get most of it... Michael Reference: Doutté, Edmond. 1909. Magie & religion dans l’Afrique du Nord. Alger: Typographe Adolphe Jourdan. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 10th December 2012 at 08:54 PM.

11th December 2012, 06:28 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	there is in this place so much knowledge here ! I have to says that his discussion forum is really fantastic and I there is in this place so much knowledge ,Michael I have really appreciate your precious help ,I was not expect this documentation about pan-Islamic talismanic motifs and I can’t thank you enough for your answer. I was afraid that all those signs was without significations and now I will appreciate much more this Blunderbuss. kind regards Cerjak

11th December 2012, 07:18 PM	#4
TribalBlades Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 33	are these symbols by chance from pre-islamic times?

11th December 2012, 10:10 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	David, If you are referring to the Western Esotericism (i.e. Christian) and their, and later Jewish, versions of the stars in your link you might be correct about the age (and in most cases they are much later). But in this case it is Islamic Esotericism. For instance the main Islamic authority, al-Buni died in 1225! The 7 seals of Solomon was not his invention, even if he of course covers them in his works, which means that they are much older than this. Your story about the signet ring is mentioned in text from Doutté above and it is the seal #1 of the traditional seven. It alternates in shape between the six-sided (Canaan) or the pentagram (Doutté). Michael

12th December 2012, 08:10 AM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I just double checked in a reference work on Islamic artifacts. According to Savage-Smith the 7 seals of Solomon first started to appear in the 12th century on talismans etc. Michael Reference: Savage-Smith, Emelie. 1997. Magic and Islam, in Francis Maddison and Emelie Savage-Smith (eds.). Science, Tools & Magic (The Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art). Part II. Oxford: Oxford University Press.