buginesse

A. G. Maisey · 25th November 2012, 09:23 PM

I find this recent profusion of toli-toli very interesting.

By about age 30 I had accumulated over 3000 keris. These were not all beautiful, perfect complete keris, but keris in every stage of disrepair and damage and I worked on a lot of them and returned them to something approximating fairly acceptable keris. By the time I was about 40 I'd reduced that 3000+ to no more than 40 pretty decent keris that were all original and in good condition, and this was the foundation for my present collection. During my thirties I put a lot of keris through auctions, both in Australia and in the UK --- this was long before ebay had ever been thought of.

Since the early 1970's I have been buying keris in Indonesia and from other countries --- UK, USA, Europe. My present personal collection is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300 keris.

Now, the reason I find the present profusion of toli-toli to be so interesting is that I have only ever owned two keris with toli-toli, and in both cases those toli-toli were rather simple red cords, not beautiful examples of the jewellers art.

It is rather pleasing to see this revival of the production of toli-toli that originally were probably owned by only a handful of nobles, this gives most of us the opportunity to add exquisite pieces to our collections, pieces that 50 years ago we could never even have dreamed of possessing.

asomotif · 25th November 2012, 11:03 PM

I would love to see some close up pictures of the blades and handles.

As for the toli toli. These look like well made examples, but they indeed appear to be recently additions. I wonder how the original scabbards where.

Sometimes the bottom of these scabbard are very well made with wooden buntut. Now the old original wooden buntut are simply removed to add a silver example that is not original.
Sure, it is silver and looks luxurious, but it is a later addition and out of its context. I am not in favour of this.

Gustav · 25th November 2012, 11:28 PM

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

A. G. Maisey · 25th November 2012, 11:35 PM

I am inclined to agree that the context of any "improvement" to an older keris is something that does need consideration.

ferrylaki · 26th November 2012, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

I must agree to say some of these not bugis.
quite an observaion Gustav.

Jean · 26th November 2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

It would be interesting to know from where Ganja Iras got these pieces, from various places or a single source?
Best regards

David · 26th November 2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

It would be interesting to know from where Ganja Iras got these pieces, from various places or a single source?
Best regards

That's a good question. To my eye the silver work appears very similar (though somewhat stylistically different) as is all these perhaps came out of the same shop.

asomotif · 26th November 2012, 08:34 PM

With the risk of being far too blunt...
Could it be that this thread belongs more or less in the swap section ?

David · 26th November 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

With the risk of being far too blunt...
Could it be that this thread belongs more or less in the swap section ?

Well. i don't see any indication that Ganja Iras is selling these keris. Of course he also has not returned to answer any of the questions asked these pieces or post any detailed images as requested more than once. You still out there Ganja???

25th November 2012, 09:23 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I find this recent profusion of toli-toli very interesting. By about age 30 I had accumulated over 3000 keris. These were not all beautiful, perfect complete keris, but keris in every stage of disrepair and damage and I worked on a lot of them and returned them to something approximating fairly acceptable keris. By the time I was about 40 I'd reduced that 3000+ to no more than 40 pretty decent keris that were all original and in good condition, and this was the foundation for my present collection. During my thirties I put a lot of keris through auctions, both in Australia and in the UK --- this was long before ebay had ever been thought of. Since the early 1970's I have been buying keris in Indonesia and from other countries --- UK, USA, Europe. My present personal collection is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300 keris. Now, the reason I find the present profusion of toli-toli to be so interesting is that I have only ever owned two keris with toli-toli, and in both cases those toli-toli were rather simple red cords, not beautiful examples of the jewellers art. It is rather pleasing to see this revival of the production of toli-toli that originally were probably owned by only a handful of nobles, this gives most of us the opportunity to add exquisite pieces to our collections, pieces that 50 years ago we could never even have dreamed of possessing.

25th November 2012, 11:03 PM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	I would love to see some close up pictures of the blades and handles. As for the toli toli. These look like well made examples, but they indeed appear to be recently additions. I wonder how the original scabbards where. Sometimes the bottom of these scabbard are very well made with wooden buntut. Now the old original wooden buntut are simply removed to add a silver example that is not original. Sure, it is silver and looks luxurious, but it is a later addition and out of its context. I am not in favour of this.

25th November 2012, 11:28 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	The first blade from left could be a shortened blade from Lombok, the third blade looks like a Malay Peninsula blade. The second sheath looks slightly strange, with the very long Batang (Gandar) for a not so long Sapukala. Also the Sampir (Gambar) seems to be rather low; could the upper part of it be reshaped?

25th November 2012, 11:35 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I am inclined to agree that the context of any "improvement" to an older keris is something that does need consideration.

26th November 2012, 08:34 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	With the risk of being far too blunt... Could it be that this thread belongs more or less in the swap section ?