Odd Visayan Ivory Kris Dagger?

VVV · 6th November 2012, 06:05 AM

Here is another one with that hilt variation from the Military Museum in Madrid.
I have studied another one, like the one below, in a US collection and the face grip details of this kind of sword and your kris above are quite similar.

Michael

Nonoy Tan · 6th November 2012, 10:22 AM

The coin is intriguing. There are two Chinese characters on it. One is "Ta" and the other "Tien."

Nonoy Tan · 6th November 2012, 10:59 AM

The Chinese characters on the coin is perhaps evidence that the anthropomorphic design is originally Chinese (????), but not necessarily the same as the Visayan anthropomorphic design which may have a different origin.

Finding out what "ta" (big) and "tien" (sky) represents and why they were added to the Spanish coin may give a clue regarding the history of this dagger. The coin experts may know.

I am inclined to agree with Nacho that the hilt was perhaps made by Chinese artisans based outside China.

nacho · 6th November 2012, 01:34 PM

Nonoy, the Chinese marks are chop marks indicating that the coin was weighed and has the right silver weight. This means the silver coin passed through China via the galleon trade.

Battara · 6th November 2012, 11:08 PM

Thank you so far. I wish were able to have bid on it.

The other thing that threw me is the fact that it is missing a collar or ferrule.

Also Nacho, would you post the rest of your nice bone/ivory hilted piece please?

By the way, here is a picture of similar Visayan daggers from an older thread for comparison (from Zelbone):

Gustav · 6th November 2012, 11:34 PM

Here is one another, from Vandoo, similar to the one posted by Michael (VVV). As Vandoo or someone another wrote years ago, it resembles somewhat a hilt on a keris, which belongs to the Ashmolean collection in Oxford, there from 1637. So this type could be a very old one. There is also probably some superficial similarity to older Kastane hilts.

nacho · 7th November 2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Thank you so far. I wish were able to have bid on it.

The other thing that threw me is the fact that it is missing a collar or ferrule.

Also Nacho, would you post the rest of your nice bone/ivory hilted piece please?

By the way, here is a picture of similar Visayan daggers from an older thread for comparison (from Zelbone):

As requested:

Spunjer · 7th November 2012, 07:34 AM

wow, that looks ivory to me! first ever to see a binangon with this type of material. Matahum kaayo!!!

6th November 2012, 06:05 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is another one with that hilt variation from the Military Museum in Madrid. I have studied another one, like the one below, in a US collection and the face grip details of this kind of sword and your kris above are quite similar. Michael Attached Images

6th November 2012, 11:08 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Thank you so far. I wish were able to have bid on it. The other thing that threw me is the fact that it is missing a collar or ferrule. Also Nacho, would you post the rest of your nice bone/ivory hilted piece please? By the way, here is a picture of similar Visayan daggers from an older thread for comparison (from Zelbone): Attached Images Last edited by Battara; 6th November 2012 at 11:20 PM.

6th November 2012, 11:34 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Here is one another, from Vandoo, similar to the one posted by Michael (VVV). As Vandoo or someone another wrote years ago, it resembles somewhat a hilt on a keris, which belongs to the Ashmolean collection in Oxford, there from 1637. So this type could be a very old one. There is also probably some superficial similarity to older Kastane hilts. Attached Images

6th November 2012, 10:22 AM	#2
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	The coin is intriguing. There are two Chinese characters on it. One is "Ta" and the other "Tien."

6th November 2012, 10:59 AM	#3
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	The Chinese characters on the coin is perhaps evidence that the anthropomorphic design is originally Chinese (????), but not necessarily the same as the Visayan anthropomorphic design which may have a different origin. Finding out what "ta" (big) and "tien" (sky) represents and why they were added to the Spanish coin may give a clue regarding the history of this dagger. The coin experts may know. I am inclined to agree with Nacho that the hilt was perhaps made by Chinese artisans based outside China.

6th November 2012, 01:34 PM	#4
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	Nonoy, the Chinese marks are chop marks indicating that the coin was weighed and has the right silver weight. This means the silver coin passed through China via the galleon trade.

7th November 2012, 07:34 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	wow, that looks ivory to me! first ever to see a binangon with this type of material. Matahum kaayo!!!