Publications On Iraqi Arms?

[A.alnakkas]

Hello All,

Thank you for the info.

Jim, I have Elgoods book somewhere in my pc and have looked at it awhile ago sadly I cant find the information I am seeking.

You are correct that the Syrian style saif (called Soori/Syrian, rather then badawi) the badawi being the Najdi hilt type.

My curiousity regarding Iraqi arms have been growing since I have owned 3 Iraqi shamshirs (I call them Iraqi because they have been there for a long time) and all seem to have distinct pommels in that they do not have a pommel cap and the other decoration can be similar to Persian, Badawi and Syrian styles. In the sense that hilt slabs can have the stars and dots decoration of Syrian hilts and wire wrap etc.

Also, an elderly Iraqi collector have told me some info regarding ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15930 ) so I am trying to see if I can gather the same info from other sources.

[A.alnakkas]

!! I actually found some reference in the Elgood book. I have no idea how I missed it...

The term gdaimi is mentioned in Elgood book but references to Najd Bedouin rather then Iraqis, this ofcourse very helpful and many Najdi tribes have actually moved to Iraq (Zbair for example)

Now another thing I couldnt find is the term "akfa" refering to marsh Arab daggers.

Reference: Elgood, Arms and Armour of Arabia, Page 70 - 71

[Jim McDougall]

Lofty thank you so much for the response and info, quid pro quo! Outstanding, and exciting to be learning more on these terms. As always applied terms offer considerable challenges in ethnographic weapon typology and nomenclature.
I am curious on the terms used in the Riyadh publication I noted, and interesting to know there are distinctions in the 'badawi' and 'Najd' hilt forms on saif. Could you say more on this? I am wondering also on the 'badawi' term, which I had presumed was with regard to wide occurrence with a full range of Bedouin tribes.
Incidentally, I really look forward to information you share on these fascinating tribal groups! While incredibly complex, this history is entirely intriguing and little known to the west, with the exception of the material in Elgood's "Arms and Armour of Arabia". I'm glad you mentioned it! I had not really forgotten it, but could not locate my copy, buried in the strata here in the bookmobile

There also was the elusive notes on the marsh Arab daggers, which I now realize seem to have a rather characteristic peaked pommel from the other khanjhars with this type hilt, if I understand correctly.

In the thread you linked you noted that the akfa term used for these daggers meant 'the curve' but they were also termed shalfa. Are these words dialectic or varying descriptively? It seems the example shown has a dramatic curve, and perhaps types with less so might be called differently?

On the Iraqi shamshirs, it is interesting that these seem to have the collective character of Persian, Badawi and Syrian types with the exception of the absence of pommel cap as you describe. Would this possibly be a local anomaly with the group if collected together, or possibly a defining characteristic?
We definitely do need more help in these classifications, which actually are clearly far more complex than the obviously broad presumptions carried in far too general references.

Great stuff Lofty!! I hope we can develop some of this further, and learn more on these weapons along with thier associations with Bedouin and Kurdish tribal groups.
All the very best, and thank you again,
Jim

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I am curious on the terms used in the Riyadh publication I noted, and interesting to know there are distinctions in the 'badawi' and 'Najd' hilt forms on saif. Could you say more on this? I am wondering also on the 'badawi' term, which I had presumed was with regard to wide occurrence with a full range of Bedouin tribes.

While reading Elgood, he did seem to refer to Syrian saifs as the badawi style (pronounced Badaawi) but based on info gathered from AlSufayan and alSane'a family who specialize in restoration of swords (alSane'a being in the sword business for centuries) they call the Najdi style hilt as Badawi and simply refer to the Syrian variation as Soori (Arabic for Syrian)

Badawi in Arabic means Bedouin but it also can refer to objects or things involved in the bedouin life style such as swords and sadu carpets etc.

In the thread you linked you noted that the akfa term used for these daggers meant 'the curve' but they were also termed shalfa. Are these words dialectic or varying descriptively? It seems the example shown has a dramatic curve, and perhaps types with less so might be called differently?

I think the term shalfa is more related towards northern parts of modern KSA. Mainly spoken by tribes there like Dhafeer and Shamar. It is dialectic but likely refers to any curved dagger..

On the Iraqi shamshirs, it is interesting that these seem to have the collective character of Persian, Badawi and Syrian types with the exception of the absence of pommel cap as you describe. Would this possibly be a local anomaly with the group if collected together, or possibly a defining characteristic?

Thats what I am to find. I built this opinion based on the last shamshirs I have owned/own and ones sold from dealers here who mainly import from Iraq. The main defining feature is that the hilt does not have a pommel cap. some have a wire wrap and some dont so I guess that part is more of a preference thing. Blades range from wootz to Majari and some European stuff.

We definitely do need more help in these classifications, which actually are clearly far more complex than the obviously broad presumptions carried in far too general references.

Great stuff Lofty!! I hope we can develop some of this further, and learn more on these weapons along with thier associations with Bedouin and Kurdish tribal groups.
All the very best, and thank you again,
Jim

Yep, its very complex. Even in the badawi (known as najdi) there is the coastal variation more native to Qatar and Bahrain which has a significantly shorter pommel akin to Persian shamshirs.