Two Wootz Shamshirs for Comments

Rick · 9th October 2012, 11:52 PM

Looking forward to the pix .
Note my edit .

Not flashy, but I'd give my left ****** to have one of them .

A.alnakkas · 9th October 2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Looking forward to the pix .
Note my edit .

Not flashy, but I'd give my left ****** to have one of them .

LOL

Lets see what you going to think about them once I get clearer pictures, the bottom one with the weld thingy is signed; Amal Assad Allah - Ya qadi al Hajat (O fulfiller of needs) but dont think its old Assad Allah work maybe put on it to give it 'prestige' :P

Rick · 10th October 2012, 12:13 AM

If every Rembrandt were a Rembrandt; right, mate ?

A.alnakkas · 10th October 2012, 01:09 AM

Well said :-)

Wootz is nice regardless of stamps and marks. But my heart will always want an Arab sabre with a European blade.. There used to be plenty here, always expensive and sells fast :-(

ALEX · 10th October 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

LOL

...but dont think its old Assad Allah work maybe put on it to give it 'prestige' :P

I agree on both points:-) Both cartuches seem later, and of similar technique. Could they be done recently by the same hand?

A.alnakkas · 10th October 2012, 11:54 AM

Yep, thats very possible. They came from the same source anyways. Though I think these were done in the last 50 years maybe, maybe more cant be sure though one used to have gold inlay.

ALEX · 10th October 2012, 11:58 AM

I agree with you, Lotfy

A.alnakkas · 10th October 2012, 12:07 PM

Alex, do you have such hilts in your collection? I am developing an understanding on Iraqi style, which seems to make the pommel capless but this cant be 100% fact because you can find badawi and Syrian saif there though most move with tribal immigration or trade..

Thanks all btw! for helping and congrats :-)

Richard Furrer · 10th October 2012, 01:59 PM

Appears to be a lap weld to me (some call it a scarf).
I have one tulwar here I got from Gavin that has a rivet and a lap weld....I liken it to both a belt AND suspenders.

On a single blade I have seen from one to three such welds . Always in wootz to wootz...I have yet to hold one that was wootz to something else (though I have heard they exist). I have seen many many with welded tangs just not all that far from the hilt.
Keep in mind I rarely get out and about.

As an aside...I had a destructive bend test done on such a tulwar blade at a laboratory..it withstood as much deflection and pressure prior to breaking as the next four inches of the blade which had no weld. So, if the weld is sound, there is no loss of strength.

As to why they are done...could be
small ingots being used or
small end cuts of larger ingots or
repairing a broken blade or
????
I have not ever seen contemporary documentation on the subject...which may mean it was not important enough to note.

Ric

9th October 2012, 11:52 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Looking forward to the pix . Note my edit . Not flashy, but I'd give my left ****** to have one of them .

10th October 2012, 12:13 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	If every Rembrandt were a Rembrandt; right, mate ?

10th October 2012, 01:09 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Well said :-) Wootz is nice regardless of stamps and marks. But my heart will always want an Arab sabre with a European blade.. There used to be plenty here, always expensive and sells fast :-(

10th October 2012, 11:54 AM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Yep, thats very possible. They came from the same source anyways. Though I think these were done in the last 50 years maybe, maybe more cant be sure though one used to have gold inlay.

10th October 2012, 11:58 AM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I agree with you, Lotfy

10th October 2012, 12:07 PM	#8
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Alex, do you have such hilts in your collection? I am developing an understanding on Iraqi style, which seems to make the pommel capless but this cant be 100% fact because you can find badawi and Syrian saif there though most move with tribal immigration or trade.. Thanks all btw! for helping and congrats :-)

10th October 2012, 01:59 PM	#9
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	Appears to be a lap weld to me (some call it a scarf). I have one tulwar here I got from Gavin that has a rivet and a lap weld....I liken it to both a belt AND suspenders. On a single blade I have seen from one to three such welds . Always in wootz to wootz...I have yet to hold one that was wootz to something else (though I have heard they exist). I have seen many many with welded tangs just not all that far from the hilt. Keep in mind I rarely get out and about. As an aside...I had a destructive bend test done on such a tulwar blade at a laboratory..it withstood as much deflection and pressure prior to breaking as the next four inches of the blade which had no weld. So, if the weld is sound, there is no loss of strength. As to why they are done...could be small ingots being used or small end cuts of larger ingots or repairing a broken blade or ???? I have not ever seen contemporary documentation on the subject...which may mean it was not important enough to note. Ric