Jezail for comment

rickystl · 26th September 2012, 08:29 PM

Hi again. The size of the hole in the barrel looks too large for a vent liner. But it does look to be about the correct size for a percussion drum.
The barrel could have been European made for the local market? Although from the photos it seems more likely it was locally made. The rear sight is the most common style I see on Jezails. Turkish and Persian barrels commonly use this rear sight arrangement.
Maybe you could post a close up photo of that barrel vent area? Is there a smaller hole inside the larger one?
At the momment I'm going to go out on a limb and take a guess: It looks like the barrel at one time was perussion - or converted to percussion - and then re-converted back to flintlock. If true, makes the gun that more interesting. Hope you can get a close up pic of the vent area. Again, thanks for Posting. Rick.

Berkley · 26th September 2012, 09:42 PM

This is the best I can do, I'm afraid. Pictures were taken in direct sun with a small bore light inside the barrel as close to the breech as possible. The fibrous material inside the vent is thin, dried, encrusted, and doesn't yield to a dental pick.

Ferguson · 27th September 2012, 10:30 AM

That's really cool Berk. Congrats!
Steve

AJ1356 · 27th September 2012, 12:50 PM

That is a HUGE priming hole. The gun seems original enough to me, the wood the barrel and the lock all look old and original. From the pictures the barrell looks to me to be made of out bronze which was was something they'd have made the barrell from with locally. It is quite normal to make the barrells octagonal all the way through.

RDGAC · 27th September 2012, 01:34 PM

Looks like she's been converted from flint to percussion, then from percussion back to flint at some stage. Possibly the lock isn't original to the stock and barrel; judging by the photos I'd say that the fit between lockplate and stock isn't too neat. The stock, barrel and lock, indeed, may all be from various source guns.

The amount of remaining brass decoration is very pleasing; how bright is it? The photos seem to suggest it's moderately bright, but I think you took them with a flash on, which doesn't help. Lovely barrel; rifle or smoothbore? We have a similar, full octagonal, rifle Damascus barrel here at work. The sight looks similar to one of mine which I think is Persian, though I don't know if that'll be any use with regard to attributing an origin.

A really good piece, all in all!

Best,

Meredydd

rickystl · 27th September 2012, 05:36 PM

Hi Berkley! Thanks for the additional photos. Are there any threads in the hole? That would pretty much confirm that this gun was percussion at some point in it's life. But I don't believe anyone would fire this gun with a vent hole that large.

The blow-back would be dangerous. Sometimes vent holes were made a little larger so that while loading powder in the barrel, a small portion of the powder would fall into the pan area with the frizzen closed. This would save the extra step of having to prime the pan. But the size and position of this hole look the right size for a percussion drum. There were a number of Baker pattern locks that were percussion (or factory converted). And this may be one of those guns that utilized that lock? Being re-converted to flintlock would not be surprising since often percussion caps would be hard to find in the area, and expensive. Again, if there are threads in the hole, it was probably percussion. It may have had a vent liner installed during the re-conversion to flintlock. The most common material for vent liners during the period was gold (low grade) and may have been removed and sold when the gun was no longer being used. The interesting thing is that the barrel and lock patina look similar. And the lock that is on it now, is one of the most common and correct.
Of course I'm just speculating on some of these comments. And in any case, it does not distract from the overall appearance of the gun. It's a nice piece in really nice condition. Rick.

rickystl · 27th September 2012, 05:41 PM

Here's a thought: You might take the lock off and inspect the mortise area. You might find a slight difference in the color of the wood inside? Where maybe later inletting was done to accomodate a lock change. Just a thought.

Rick.

26th September 2012, 09:42 PM	#2
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	This is the best I can do, I'm afraid. Pictures were taken in direct sun with a small bore light inside the barrel as close to the breech as possible. The fibrous material inside the vent is thin, dried, encrusted, and doesn't yield to a dental pick. Attached Images

26th September 2012, 08:29 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	Hi again. The size of the hole in the barrel looks too large for a vent liner. But it does look to be about the correct size for a percussion drum. The barrel could have been European made for the local market? Although from the photos it seems more likely it was locally made. The rear sight is the most common style I see on Jezails. Turkish and Persian barrels commonly use this rear sight arrangement. Maybe you could post a close up photo of that barrel vent area? Is there a smaller hole inside the larger one? At the momment I'm going to go out on a limb and take a guess: It looks like the barrel at one time was perussion - or converted to percussion - and then re-converted back to flintlock. If true, makes the gun that more interesting. Hope you can get a close up pic of the vent area. Again, thanks for Posting. Rick.

27th September 2012, 10:30 AM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	That's really cool Berk. Congrats! Steve

27th September 2012, 12:50 PM	#4
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	That is a HUGE priming hole. The gun seems original enough to me, the wood the barrel and the lock all look old and original. From the pictures the barrell looks to me to be made of out bronze which was was something they'd have made the barrell from with locally. It is quite normal to make the barrells octagonal all the way through.

27th September 2012, 01:34 PM	#5
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Looks like she's been converted from flint to percussion, then from percussion back to flint at some stage. Possibly the lock isn't original to the stock and barrel; judging by the photos I'd say that the fit between lockplate and stock isn't too neat. The stock, barrel and lock, indeed, may all be from various source guns. The amount of remaining brass decoration is very pleasing; how bright is it? The photos seem to suggest it's moderately bright, but I think you took them with a flash on, which doesn't help. Lovely barrel; rifle or smoothbore? We have a similar, full octagonal, rifle Damascus barrel here at work. The sight looks similar to one of mine which I think is Persian, though I don't know if that'll be any use with regard to attributing an origin. A really good piece, all in all! Best, Meredydd

27th September 2012, 05:36 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	Hi Berkley! Thanks for the additional photos. Are there any threads in the hole? That would pretty much confirm that this gun was percussion at some point in it's life. But I don't believe anyone would fire this gun with a vent hole that large. The blow-back would be dangerous. Sometimes vent holes were made a little larger so that while loading powder in the barrel, a small portion of the powder would fall into the pan area with the frizzen closed. This would save the extra step of having to prime the pan. But the size and position of this hole look the right size for a percussion drum. There were a number of Baker pattern locks that were percussion (or factory converted). And this may be one of those guns that utilized that lock? Being re-converted to flintlock would not be surprising since often percussion caps would be hard to find in the area, and expensive. Again, if there are threads in the hole, it was probably percussion. It may have had a vent liner installed during the re-conversion to flintlock. The most common material for vent liners during the period was gold (low grade) and may have been removed and sold when the gun was no longer being used. The interesting thing is that the barrel and lock patina look similar. And the lock that is on it now, is one of the most common and correct. Of course I'm just speculating on some of these comments. And in any case, it does not distract from the overall appearance of the gun. It's a nice piece in really nice condition. Rick.

27th September 2012, 05:41 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	Here's a thought: You might take the lock off and inspect the mortise area. You might find a slight difference in the color of the wood inside? Where maybe later inletting was done to accomodate a lock change. Just a thought. Rick.