Help identifying kaskara

Jim McDougall · 20th September 2012, 12:48 AM

Just discovered that the numbers in cartouche are probably item numbers in contract lot. Apparantly Luckhaus & Gunther numbered thier blades at the forte around 1895-1900 though not in cartouche. I found notes with a pair of Cuban machete type blades with two close numbers, otherwise identical, suggesting being of the same lot. As Solingen was producing blades for a variety of markets in these times, perhaps this suggests this practice was being used by the firms in fulfilling blade contracts. As previously noted blades of these types were being supplied to Abyssinia at this time for straight blade shotels, and these often ended up rerouted in trade entrepots, so being on a kaskara quite expectable, especially since Eritrea and Ethiopia also used them.

randallstorey · 20th September 2012, 09:19 AM

Thanks Jim, that's what I assumed the numbers indicated, and I'm fairly sure there is yet another very faint character or symbol preceding the numbers. Do we have any information on how many blades were produced per consignment? The kaskara in Stone's Glossary is also described as having a three digit number in cartouche as you put it. He thought that it indicated the Islamic year and that an AH was also stamped with the date, which supported his assertion that kaskaras often have medieval blades.

I've often wondered why he would make this assertion despite being so knowledgeable. Perhaps it was a current notion, along with the idea that medieval armaments could be purchased readily and cheaply up until the 1970s. I imagine upon inspection many of the latter would have been victorian reproductions which were handsome and were snatched up even though when they come to light now they are recognised as what they are. If so many medieval arms were kicking around a few decades ago, where did they come from and where are they now? I just don't believe that many survived.

Iain · 20th September 2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallstorey

I've often wondered why he would make this assertion despite being so knowledgeable. Perhaps it was a current notion, along with the idea that medieval armaments could be purchased readily and cheaply up until the 1970s. I imagine upon inspection many of the latter would have been victorian reproductions which were handsome and were snatched up even though when they come to light now they are recognised as what they are. If so many medieval arms were kicking around a few decades ago, where did they come from and where are they now? I just don't believe that many survived.

Hi Randall,

I think you are spot on that this was simply the way of thinking at the time. There was an assumption that based on the appearance of the kaskara it must be derived from Medieval swords, then the crusader notion seemed obvious and of course once you established that wondering if you had a Medieval blade got a lot easier!

Not only were many items Victorian reproductions in my understanding an awful lot of kaskara blades got mated with Medieval style hilts and sold on as the genuine article.

Returning to your particular kaskara, I think has pretty much nailed this one down. A European blade for an Ethiopian saif repurposed in kaskara mounts. Any chance of photographs of the numbers and possible symbol in the same high quality as the shots you showed of the script on the blade?

There could be a name or maker's mark stamped at the bottom of the forte near the tang but this sadly would probably be impossible to see without dismantling the hilt.

All the best,

Iain

Jim McDougall · 20th September 2012, 06:41 PM

Stone was a brilliant arms collector and scholar whose long venerated and comprehensive volume has remained quite literally the backbone of every serious arms collectors library. While he was indeed remarkably knowledgeable, it is important to remember that he himself acknowledged the limitations of his work (first published in the 1930s) and clearly noted his hopes for others to follow in continued study and advancing knowledge on these arms.
His work served as the cornerstone for the ongoing study of arms, which I think continues here as it has for many years now, in comprehensively reviewing extant material and newly acquired arms for discussion.

In his description Stone noted the AH date, and that it was an Arabic blade, which do typically appear in cartouche, however they are not stamped but in Islamic script inlaid, so his description was entirely accurate as he never claimed it was stamped. These Islamic blades in kaskara were typically much earlier, but not necessarily medieval, and were typically either Ottoman or possibly Mamluk, presumably of high ranking members of the courts or individuals of high status. A good number of these highly decorated Islamic blades did survive as heirloom blades through many generations.

The common kaskara, was often mounted with trade blades, in most cases from Germany, but in some degree from Italy as well. It is important to note that the 'crusader' notion created the idea that these kaskara blades must be 'medieval'. In reality they are typically 'European', not necessarily medieval (though there are instances where some have been found). In most cases blades from Germany are known to have arrived in the Sahara as well as several other ports of entry most notably from sometime in the 17th century onward. Probably some of the earliest blade arrivals came through Saharan regions via Portuguese stations in west Africa, and diffused into tribal areas in these kingdoms who indeed used the broadsword in medieval fashion.

The idea of medieval blades being easily obtained into the 1970s is of course more of the hyperbole noted in various writing and collectors assumptions. While captured blades of the crusades were often 'recycled' as thier steel was highly valuable, a good number were preserved as trophies and these are well known in references today. There were of course large numbers of these arms which survived in Europe, and did not really attract great interest until the romanticized literature of the Victorian period inspired the display of these artifacts in baronial decor. One of the most mitigating factors was that the demand inadvertantly created fabricators such as Ernst Schmitt in Munich who fashioned reproductions so authentic that in many cases museums displayed them as such until recent times. As the general public often could not be certain of authenticity, many actually genuine pieces were tossed into piles of arms being regarded as simply old steel of questionable virtue. Oakeshott describes one such sword found in New Zealand and horribly painted over which turned out authentically medieval.

The increase in volume of German blades into the Sudan came through both Red Sea trade and trade entrepots in Libya, around mid 19th century to the Mahdist period in 1880s through Omdurman (1898). Solingen had become hugely overspeculated around the Franco-Prussian war (1870-71), and there were hundreds of smaller firms producing as outsourced producers for the larger ones. These often ended up either amalgamated or ceasing, so the possibility of records is very slim. Factor in that imports of these blades most certainly ceased after Omdurman as the British and French occupied the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan in the condominium guarding interests in the Suez canal. Obviously they would be wary of rearming this nation for future insurgencies and one of the reasons huge volumes of these arms were collected was not for trophies, but to disarm these forces. The kaskara was an extremely deadly weapon in the hands of these tribal warriors.

It is far too complex to try to detail more of how geopolitical turmoil of these times affected circumstances with these blades, but I wanted to give at least some overview in hopes it might create further interest in understanding these important weapons.

All best regards,
Jim

randallstorey · 20th September 2012, 08:44 PM

Thanks Jim. I was mistaken, Stone didnt say the date was stamped. He simply said 'dated and covered with inscriptions' which really doesnt explain where on the blade nor how the date was entered.

Do we not have any estimates of how many of these trade blades were being produced at this time then? As mine is '857' which I'll try to better photograph soon, I considered it might have been a lot of a thousand but wondered whether larger consignments were known or indeed whether a thousand was too large.

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2012, 04:30 AM

Hi Randall,
Thank you for your responses and interest, its good to see serious interest in weapons history and learning more on thier background. As I mentioned there were many small firms producing blades in Solingen primarily for larger well established ones after the 1870s. While many of these had the markings of major firms added, sometimes those of importers as well, these virtually unmarked blades with only stamped numbers are unlikely to be identified further in my opinion. There were severe losses in the kinds of records which might reveal more of this kind of detail during extensive bomb damage and fires in WWII, though some Solingen history remains through references published previous.
We very much wish there were better records on this statistical detail on blades going into North Africa, but mostly what is available is scattered information in narratives and informational publications from public service records during occupation. You might read the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley (1984) which is among those here on the forum on the edged weapons production in Kasalla.
Many of the early adventure and exploratory narratives of the early 19th century suggest seemingly exaggerated numbers of blades entering the trade routes in tens of thousands, an unlikely number. In one narrative of much later in the century suggests several thousand per year in one trade location. The main thing to remember is that these blades were literally handed down generation to generation, and well into the 20th century there were blades being refurbished which had been around for many decades, perhaps even over a century in some cases.

You are asking the right questions though, and honestly we have been trying to find this kind of data for many years, and Ive been at it a good many myself. We've come a long way, and if you'll review the threads on file here you'll find many discussions which will add some interesting details on these fascinating swords.

All best regards,
Jim

For some much better illustrations of these type blades in kaskaras with Islamic inscriptions a good reference is "Introduction to Islamic Arms", an outstanding book by the late Anthony North.

randallstorey · 21st September 2012, 08:26 AM

Perhaps I'm spoiled by the records available to medievalists and medieval Britain in particular. In addition to actual workshop accounts, contracts for provision of arms, purveyance etc, we can deduce army numbers and standards of arms requirements to make some informed guesses about quantities, qualities, economics and the impact on military and political organization. The upshot in this case being I have the sword in question!

I'll have a look at the works you've mentioned thank you very much, and this forum in itself is a trove.

Kind regards
Randall

20th September 2012, 06:41 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Stone was a brilliant arms collector and scholar whose long venerated and comprehensive volume has remained quite literally the backbone of every serious arms collectors library. While he was indeed remarkably knowledgeable, it is important to remember that he himself acknowledged the limitations of his work (first published in the 1930s) and clearly noted his hopes for others to follow in continued study and advancing knowledge on these arms. His work served as the cornerstone for the ongoing study of arms, which I think continues here as it has for many years now, in comprehensively reviewing extant material and newly acquired arms for discussion. In his description Stone noted the AH date, and that it was an Arabic blade, which do typically appear in cartouche, however they are not stamped but in Islamic script inlaid, so his description was entirely accurate as he never claimed it was stamped. These Islamic blades in kaskara were typically much earlier, but not necessarily medieval, and were typically either Ottoman or possibly Mamluk, presumably of high ranking members of the courts or individuals of high status. A good number of these highly decorated Islamic blades did survive as heirloom blades through many generations. The common kaskara, was often mounted with trade blades, in most cases from Germany, but in some degree from Italy as well. It is important to note that the 'crusader' notion created the idea that these kaskara blades must be 'medieval'. In reality they are typically 'European', not necessarily medieval (though there are instances where some have been found). In most cases blades from Germany are known to have arrived in the Sahara as well as several other ports of entry most notably from sometime in the 17th century onward. Probably some of the earliest blade arrivals came through Saharan regions via Portuguese stations in west Africa, and diffused into tribal areas in these kingdoms who indeed used the broadsword in medieval fashion. The idea of medieval blades being easily obtained into the 1970s is of course more of the hyperbole noted in various writing and collectors assumptions. While captured blades of the crusades were often 'recycled' as thier steel was highly valuable, a good number were preserved as trophies and these are well known in references today. There were of course large numbers of these arms which survived in Europe, and did not really attract great interest until the romanticized literature of the Victorian period inspired the display of these artifacts in baronial decor. One of the most mitigating factors was that the demand inadvertantly created fabricators such as Ernst Schmitt in Munich who fashioned reproductions so authentic that in many cases museums displayed them as such until recent times. As the general public often could not be certain of authenticity, many actually genuine pieces were tossed into piles of arms being regarded as simply old steel of questionable virtue. Oakeshott describes one such sword found in New Zealand and horribly painted over which turned out authentically medieval. The increase in volume of German blades into the Sudan came through both Red Sea trade and trade entrepots in Libya, around mid 19th century to the Mahdist period in 1880s through Omdurman (1898). Solingen had become hugely overspeculated around the Franco-Prussian war (1870-71), and there were hundreds of smaller firms producing as outsourced producers for the larger ones. These often ended up either amalgamated or ceasing, so the possibility of records is very slim. Factor in that imports of these blades most certainly ceased after Omdurman as the British and French occupied the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan in the condominium guarding interests in the Suez canal. Obviously they would be wary of rearming this nation for future insurgencies and one of the reasons huge volumes of these arms were collected was not for trophies, but to disarm these forces. The kaskara was an extremely deadly weapon in the hands of these tribal warriors. It is far too complex to try to detail more of how geopolitical turmoil of these times affected circumstances with these blades, but I wanted to give at least some overview in hopes it might create further interest in understanding these important weapons. All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 20th September 2012 at 06:59 PM.

20th September 2012, 12:48 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Just discovered that the numbers in cartouche are probably item numbers in contract lot. Apparantly Luckhaus & Gunther numbered thier blades at the forte around 1895-1900 though not in cartouche. I found notes with a pair of Cuban machete type blades with two close numbers, otherwise identical, suggesting being of the same lot. As Solingen was producing blades for a variety of markets in these times, perhaps this suggests this practice was being used by the firms in fulfilling blade contracts. As previously noted blades of these types were being supplied to Abyssinia at this time for straight blade shotels, and these often ended up rerouted in trade entrepots, so being on a kaskara quite expectable, especially since Eritrea and Ethiopia also used them.

20th September 2012, 09:19 AM	#2
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Thanks Jim, that's what I assumed the numbers indicated, and I'm fairly sure there is yet another very faint character or symbol preceding the numbers. Do we have any information on how many blades were produced per consignment? The kaskara in Stone's Glossary is also described as having a three digit number in cartouche as you put it. He thought that it indicated the Islamic year and that an AH was also stamped with the date, which supported his assertion that kaskaras often have medieval blades. I've often wondered why he would make this assertion despite being so knowledgeable. Perhaps it was a current notion, along with the idea that medieval armaments could be purchased readily and cheaply up until the 1970s. I imagine upon inspection many of the latter would have been victorian reproductions which were handsome and were snatched up even though when they come to light now they are recognised as what they are. If so many medieval arms were kicking around a few decades ago, where did they come from and where are they now? I just don't believe that many survived.

20th September 2012, 08:44 PM	#5
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Thanks Jim. I was mistaken, Stone didnt say the date was stamped. He simply said 'dated and covered with inscriptions' which really doesnt explain where on the blade nor how the date was entered. Do we not have any estimates of how many of these trade blades were being produced at this time then? As mine is '857' which I'll try to better photograph soon, I considered it might have been a lot of a thousand but wondered whether larger consignments were known or indeed whether a thousand was too large.

21st September 2012, 04:30 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Hi Randall, Thank you for your responses and interest, its good to see serious interest in weapons history and learning more on thier background. As I mentioned there were many small firms producing blades in Solingen primarily for larger well established ones after the 1870s. While many of these had the markings of major firms added, sometimes those of importers as well, these virtually unmarked blades with only stamped numbers are unlikely to be identified further in my opinion. There were severe losses in the kinds of records which might reveal more of this kind of detail during extensive bomb damage and fires in WWII, though some Solingen history remains through references published previous. We very much wish there were better records on this statistical detail on blades going into North Africa, but mostly what is available is scattered information in narratives and informational publications from public service records during occupation. You might read the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley (1984) which is among those here on the forum on the edged weapons production in Kasalla. Many of the early adventure and exploratory narratives of the early 19th century suggest seemingly exaggerated numbers of blades entering the trade routes in tens of thousands, an unlikely number. In one narrative of much later in the century suggests several thousand per year in one trade location. The main thing to remember is that these blades were literally handed down generation to generation, and well into the 20th century there were blades being refurbished which had been around for many decades, perhaps even over a century in some cases. You are asking the right questions though, and honestly we have been trying to find this kind of data for many years, and Ive been at it a good many myself. We've come a long way, and if you'll review the threads on file here you'll find many discussions which will add some interesting details on these fascinating swords. All best regards, Jim For some much better illustrations of these type blades in kaskaras with Islamic inscriptions a good reference is "Introduction to Islamic Arms", an outstanding book by the late Anthony North.

21st September 2012, 08:26 AM	#7
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Perhaps I'm spoiled by the records available to medievalists and medieval Britain in particular. In addition to actual workshop accounts, contracts for provision of arms, purveyance etc, we can deduce army numbers and standards of arms requirements to make some informed guesses about quantities, qualities, economics and the impact on military and political organization. The upshot in this case being I have the sword in question! I'll have a look at the works you've mentioned thank you very much, and this forum in itself is a trove. Kind regards Randall