Jezail 3: Return of the Not-Quite-So-Killer Jezail

David R · 18th September 2012, 05:37 PM

I regularly see junk guns at antique and arms fairs, and if they are cheap enough they can be a nice antique gun kit or a source of spares. Think how much work there is in a good barrel...sometimes worth the money for the whole gun.
Last weekend one of these was being sold at the Birmingham arms fair, but honestly labeled as a "decorative wall hanger".
For a laugh though, here's the lock off one of these I bought a couple of years ago for the sake of the decent, though cut down, rifled octagonal barrel. NB the brass tumbler inside the lock, I think the cock is genuine, and perhaps the lock plate.

rickystl · 21st September 2012, 09:59 PM

I really like the fluted barrel on your gun. Beautiful. Too bad about the breech end. Well, if you plan on restoring, it looks like you have your work cut out for you.
By coincidence, I just purchased a Jezail myself. I plan on restoring this one to a shooter. Mine is rather plain and un-decorated, but it's all there. Even the sling is original. I bought this one because it has a genuine British Barnett trade lock. The butt stock is broke where someone crudely glued it together. The glue is still soft.

The trigger guard is broke - and likely the same person tried to glue that back together.

But it's all repairable. I plan on tackeling this project sometime next year. Too many others to finish at the momment.
Keep us posted as to your progress. Thanks, Rick.

RDGAC · 26th November 2013, 11:08 PM

Well, thread necromancy ahoy. I have recently begun work on this again, after a year's hopeless indecision. My eventual call was to make or have made a new fore-end for the stock. Microscopic examination, courtesy the York Archaeological Trust (very nice folks, for anyone in the area), revealed that the newer part of the stock, the "repair", is made from beech. I didn't know beech grew around Afghanistan, but there it is.

The old, original part, however, is made from something else entirely. Namely, a plant I'd never heard of, "Common dogwood", Cornus sanguinea, apparently native to much of Europe and as far afield as the Caspian Sea. That explains roughly where it came from, at any rate, which seems nice to know.

Now for my question: Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some common dogwood timber? Google has turned up, so far, absolutely nothing suitable; the plant itself is mostly used as an ornamental shrub, obviously not really suitable for making gun stocks!

Ricky: That is a very nice gun, if a bit battered. How's she coming along?

Jim McDougall · 29th November 2013, 09:30 PM

I cant add much on the dogwood, but just wanted to say Im glad you're back and than you for staying with it on this.....I really love this jezail! and it has an incredible charm to it, and I can picture the fantastic history of its home regions. I recall the great discussions we had on that EIC balemark and led to outstanding entries in my own notes.

All the best,
Jim

fearn · 30th November 2013, 04:11 AM

Probably the simplest way to get Cornus sanguinea is to go where it lives, hire someone to legally cut the wood, and repair the gun on location. Then it will be genuine. The second choice is to find Cornus sanguinea growing somewhere in England (where it's been planted) and make a bargain to get the wood you need. Perhaps after someone's cleaning up after a storm or before a development goes in? Then you can dry it (or pay someone to do so) and get to work crafting it.

F

Raf · 30th November 2013, 03:45 PM

I think your being a bit hard on it . Cant immediately see why the lock isnt a bog standard EIC lock ; Windus patern which formed the model for the India pattern Bess. Whats wrong with lock is the native made replacement cast spring which probably never worked properly in the first place. A modern cast steel spring for a India pattern lock will probably fit with a bit of work. Their not expensive compared to making one and are fairly easy to temper. The lock obviously belongs to most of the stock .The barrel as you point out probably doesnt belong to this gun and almost certainly started life as a matchlock .Looks Persian to me. The charm , if thats the right word , of these things is that they have a long and colourfull history and the fact they are invariable marriages of parts of different dates from different cultures is just part of real history.

Jens Nordlunde · 1st December 2013, 10:20 PM

Hello Fern,
Maybe you should explain something about 'drying' whe wood, as I remember that someone long time ago, told me that wood for wood cutting should be at least seventy years old. Wood for this weapon will no doubt not have to as old as that, but it will still have to be dry.
Jens

18th September 2012, 05:37 PM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,114	I regularly see junk guns at antique and arms fairs, and if they are cheap enough they can be a nice antique gun kit or a source of spares. Think how much work there is in a good barrel...sometimes worth the money for the whole gun. Last weekend one of these was being sold at the Birmingham arms fair, but honestly labeled as a "decorative wall hanger". For a laugh though, here's the lock off one of these I bought a couple of years ago for the sake of the decent, though cut down, rifled octagonal barrel. NB the brass tumbler inside the lock, I think the cock is genuine, and perhaps the lock plate. Attached Images

21st September 2012, 09:59 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	I really like the fluted barrel on your gun. Beautiful. Too bad about the breech end. Well, if you plan on restoring, it looks like you have your work cut out for you. By coincidence, I just purchased a Jezail myself. I plan on restoring this one to a shooter. Mine is rather plain and un-decorated, but it's all there. Even the sling is original. I bought this one because it has a genuine British Barnett trade lock. The butt stock is broke where someone crudely glued it together. The glue is still soft. The trigger guard is broke - and likely the same person tried to glue that back together. But it's all repairable. I plan on tackeling this project sometime next year. Too many others to finish at the momment. Keep us posted as to your progress. Thanks, Rick. Attached Images

26th November 2013, 11:08 PM	#3
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Well, thread necromancy ahoy. I have recently begun work on this again, after a year's hopeless indecision. My eventual call was to make or have made a new fore-end for the stock. Microscopic examination, courtesy the York Archaeological Trust (very nice folks, for anyone in the area), revealed that the newer part of the stock, the "repair", is made from beech. I didn't know beech grew around Afghanistan, but there it is. The old, original part, however, is made from something else entirely. Namely, a plant I'd never heard of, "Common dogwood", Cornus sanguinea, apparently native to much of Europe and as far afield as the Caspian Sea. That explains roughly where it came from, at any rate, which seems nice to know. Now for my question: Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some common dogwood timber? Google has turned up, so far, absolutely nothing suitable; the plant itself is mostly used as an ornamental shrub, obviously not really suitable for making gun stocks! Ricky: That is a very nice gun, if a bit battered. How's she coming along?

29th November 2013, 09:30 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	I cant add much on the dogwood, but just wanted to say Im glad you're back and than you for staying with it on this.....I really love this jezail! and it has an incredible charm to it, and I can picture the fantastic history of its home regions. I recall the great discussions we had on that EIC balemark and led to outstanding entries in my own notes. All the best, Jim

30th November 2013, 04:11 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Probably the simplest way to get Cornus sanguinea is to go where it lives, hire someone to legally cut the wood, and repair the gun on location. Then it will be genuine. The second choice is to find Cornus sanguinea growing somewhere in England (where it's been planted) and make a bargain to get the wood you need. Perhaps after someone's cleaning up after a storm or before a development goes in? Then you can dry it (or pay someone to do so) and get to work crafting it. F

30th November 2013, 03:45 PM	#6
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	I think your being a bit hard on it . Cant immediately see why the lock isnt a bog standard EIC lock ; Windus patern which formed the model for the India pattern Bess. Whats wrong with lock is the native made replacement cast spring which probably never worked properly in the first place. A modern cast steel spring for a India pattern lock will probably fit with a bit of work. Their not expensive compared to making one and are fairly easy to temper. The lock obviously belongs to most of the stock .The barrel as you point out probably doesnt belong to this gun and almost certainly started life as a matchlock .Looks Persian to me. The charm , if thats the right word , of these things is that they have a long and colourfull history and the fact they are invariable marriages of parts of different dates from different cultures is just part of real history.

1st December 2013, 10:20 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hello Fern, Maybe you should explain something about 'drying' whe wood, as I remember that someone long time ago, told me that wood for wood cutting should be at least seventy years old. Wood for this weapon will no doubt not have to as old as that, but it will still have to be dry. Jens