Information Please about Ivory Ceremonial Staff and Hatchet

[David R]

Heres one off my wall. The narrow wooden shaft is reenforced with a metal insert down the centre. According to my friends at the RA this one is probably 18thC. The working point is heavily reenforced for armour piercing.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by David R

Heres one off my wall. The narrow wooden shaft is reenforced with a metal insert down the centre. According to my friends at the RA this one is probably 18thC. The working point is heavily reenforced for armour piercing.

Were they drunk?

[Rick]

The OP's pieces look like Victorian 'take home' stuff, imho .

[David R]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Were they drunk?

No, they were acknowleged experts and professionals in the field, who had the item in their hands rather than just looking at a photo. Bit of a suprise for me as well as I thought it more likely 19th when I bought it.
Possibly they were referring to the head only, which is quite robust. I think the shaft a little delicate for a user...but it does have the steel fillet down the centre usual for Indian shafted weapons.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by David R

No, they were acknowleged experts and professionals in the field, who had the item in their hands rather than just looking at a photo. Bit of a suprise for me as well as I thought it more likely 19th when I bought it.
Possibly they were referring to the head only, which is quite robust. I think the shaft a little delicate for a user...but it does have the steel fillet down the centre usual for Indian shafted weapons.

Ah, because that's not what you said is it?
But even the head doesn't look 18thC to me. Which part of the head? The whole head including the brass elephant of the type well known on the later 19thC pieces and even early 20th wall hangers?
Oh well, I guess the "acknowleged experts and professionals in the field" can't be argued with
Who was it BTW?


I sure changed my mind about Lion headed chrome plated Indian Kukri after Manchester Museum (who have a nice selection of fine Kukri) identified this 'Rare Ghurka sword': http://insidethem60.journallocal.co....hester-museum/
In case the picture is too small, here's the larger version:

[A.alnakkas]

Their faces are priceless xD Oh how much I wish to tell them that its a touristy item made in some basement... lol

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Their faces are priceless xD Oh how much I wish to tell them that its a touristy item made in some basement... lol

They have been told Lotfy. I posted a comment on that site linked to explaining that the Kukri was a 1970s Indian made export item and it was deleted. I know other people sent them emails.
I'm guessing that this 'rare' Kukri won't make it to the public display that they mentioned.

In some ways museums are more likely to misidentify than collectors. Museums sometimes have the problem that their experience seems limited to genuine items and when they see fakes or reproductions they try to fit them into their sphere of knowledge.
Often it's the collectors who have more 'experience' of the later or reproduced items than the so-called experts.


Then of course there is 'expert syndrome' as well. lol

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by David R

No, they were acknowleged experts and professionals in the field, who had the item in their hands rather than just looking at a photo. Bit of a suprise for me as well as I thought it more likely 19th when I bought it.
Possibly they were referring to the head only, which is quite robust. I think the shaft a little delicate for a user...but it does have the steel fillet down the centre usual for Indian shafted weapons.

Anyway. Your Zaghnal looks all contemporary to me. I'd say a kindly estimate would be circa 1875 give or take a 1/4C.

But AS ALWAYS I live to learn and if proven wrong will be all the happier to have increased my understanding.



Edit: Here's just one:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3588

"*snip*axe of the Zaghnal family, India, mid to late 19 C."

[David R]

Well whatever, I bought it as 19th C for a bargain price, and have no particular investment in it being 18th C, I took it in for one of our meetings and was very pleased to hear the opinion that it was possibly older.
Even the best can make mistakes, but they have a world level collection for reference, and the advantage of handling it. I will leave it to you to contact them and inform them of their mistake. http://www.royalarmouries.org/visit-...eeds-galleries

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by David R

Well whatever, I bought it as 19th C for a bargain price, and have no particular investment in it being 18th C, I took it in for one of our meetings and was very pleased to hear the opinion that it was possibly older.
Even the best can make mistakes, but they have a world level collection for reference, and the advantage of handling it. I will leave it to you to contact them and inform them of their mistake. http://www.royalarmouries.org/visit-...eeds-galleries

You're very welcome, glad to have been of help.