Strange twist core Moro _____???

[VVV]

I picked up this sword at a local auction this Summer.
It's quite small, has twist core and I assume it's 19th C?
It also has a false edge.
What do you think it is?
Could it be a remodeled old twist core kris??
Do you have any reference pictures of similar swords???


Michael

PS I have had BIG problems etching it and have tried both FeCl and household vinegar.
Somehow I don't manage to get enough contrast. Any hints?

[Royston]

Hello Michael

Nice unusual
piece. It reminds me a little ( and only a little ) of the one I have that was posted under Moro / Borneo hybrid a few years back.

As for the etching, how long are you leaving the vinegar on ? Are you using it hot ?

Regards
Roy

[mross]

I vote for a remoldeled kris.

[T. Koch]

Wow, interesting piece! It looks as if the pattern weld is starting to come apart. Could this be the result of unskilled hands, i.e. the re-forging done by a smith who was perhaps unfamiliar with the principles of patterned steel? The handle and ferrule looks similar to that of a barong.

Whatever it is, it's coooool!

Michael, sorry for the semi-OT, but is there a convenient Scandinavian source for FeCl, or do you just buy it online? I'd like to try out a more aggressive etch.


All the best, - Thor

[VANDOO]

MAYBE A REWORKED KRIS BUT MORE LIKELY SOMEONE TRYING TO MAKE A TWISTCORE BARONG. THE BLADE BEING NARROW DOES MAKE ONE WONDER IF IT WAS A KERIS AT ONE TIME. PICTURES OF THE BLADE FORTE (BOTH SIDES) COULD REVEAL IF IT WAS REFORGED FROM A KERIS. THOSE WHO FORGE AND MAKE KNIVES SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL WHAT WAS DONE BUT AS USUAL ITS DIFFICULT TO KNOW FOR CERTIAN FROM PICTURES ONLY. A VERY INTERESTING BARONG.

[Rick]

I'm pretty sure those are cold shuts showing on the blade .

Anorexic Barung ?

[VVV]

Thanks for all comments!

Rick, I don't know about cold shuts but I just returned home after seeing Coldplay here in Stockholm and they were GREAT!!!
Maybe it is an anorexic barung with bangkung-envy?

Roy, I diluted the vinegar with hot water and let it sit in it for several hours, after I failed with FeCl.

Thor, I got the FeCl from a fellow collector when he was visiting Sweden. It seems to be hard to buy it here in non-industrial doses.

And I will shoot additional close up pictures tomorrow of the blade details.

Michael

[Spunjer]

hello michael,
yup, that's moro. i believe it's similar to this here newer version, tho not as pretty as yours. the local term escapes me at the moment (those darn Sulu terms, lol), but yeah, it's kinda like a barung on weight watchers. yours does looks like it was salvaged from a twistcore kris, but then again, what's the dimension of this beaut you got?
btw, your would be the double edge version, while mine would be the shandigan type...

[Battara]

Could it be a shadrigan/sipput barong? I don't know.

Or it could also be a type of Moro piece unaccounted for in the literature?

Interesting whatever it is.

[VVV]

Thanks for the reference pictures, Ron!

Mine is quite small - 22" with a 16" blade.
The width is 2 cm closest to the hilt and then reaches 3,3 cm.
On the sides it is like a barong, thick at the back and then an edge all the way on the business side.

It doesn't have any shandigan traits at the center of the blade etc.

Michael

[Battara]

If that is the case then it could be a sword type not in Cato (which many things are not in Cato).

[Spunjer]

so it's only 3.3cm wide at its widest??? mine is about 2". blade length is 19", total is 23.5".
i guess just like the barung, the older ones were shorter overall?
another thing that strikes me is, if it was a reworked kris, wouldn't the back be not as thick?

[the hairy velay]

I know nothing about this type of knife, but I know very well forge Damascus: first, seeing the tip of the blade was forged for this knife, I think, the sharp reports, go to the tip. The welds are not perfect original. Even reforged, damask does not split like that. I also think the heat was too high and the temper of the blade badly made: the edge is split.
For revelation, I use perclorure iron is used the acid to burn the computer card. Attention is very aggressive. We found here: http://www.conrad.fr/perchlorure_fer..._835908_221210

[VVV]

Thanks for the additional comments.
I will give it a new try with FeCl later this week, maybe in a stronger concentration than I have previously used.

Michael

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i guess just like the barung, the older ones were shorter overall?
another thing that strikes me is, if it was a reworked kris, wouldn't the back be not as thick?

1. Yes my understanding is the that older barong were shorter.

2. I agree that a reworked kris would have a different profile.

[Spunjer]

you know, the more i look at your piece, michael, the profile reminds me of an itak. yes the handle and scabbard are typically used on barungs, but i'm wondering if this particular piece was inspired by a non-moro sword.
there's just something about it i can't put my finger on...

[VVV]

Yes, I have also been hesitant to label it a barong. The inspiration might be either an itak or some lighter parang blades from Indonesia or Malaysia.
But what makes it more strange is the twist core. Something seen on neither any of those other (inspirational) blades nor on any barong?

Michael