Pronunciation: Khanjar and Jambiya

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2012, 04:00 AM

About middle east pronunciations I know zilch, but Indonesian is my second language and in my normal day to day family and friends conversation I speak a mix of Indonesian/Javanese/English.

Now, here's the thing:- jambiyas exist in Indonesia too, and in Jawa they call them "jambio", sometimes pronounced not as "jam-bi-o" but as "jambyo", the last three letters as in "Yo dude!"

I do feel that variations in pronunciation of the vowels in these two words in the middle east would depend to a very great degree upon regional pronunciation.

A. alnakkas:- if the "r" is pronounced, is it rolled? That is "rrrr" ? Something like a Scotsman rolls his "r's".

A.alnakkas · 28th August 2012, 04:24 AM

Hey A.G,

Its Khanjar without the rrr

A.alnakkas · 28th August 2012, 04:41 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DK2...eature=related

In the first few seconds, you can hear the guy speaking saying both Khanjar and Janbiya :-)

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2012, 04:52 AM

Thank you.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th August 2012, 07:15 AM

Salaams ~ Its funny but most Europeans say canjaa.. whereas Omanis say Khunjar with a fairly strong Kh (as in the Scottish loch) at the front but a soft r...(not the rolled r) at the end ... but certainly the r is just audible. It is claimed that the word is an Arabic original absorbed and transmitted through Persia to India. The Met museum claim that the item... A dagger ...with the name of Khunjar arrived in Indian weaponry design

in the 16th Century probably via Persia. The picture being worth 1000 words please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=14878:shrug:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

AJ1356 · 28th August 2012, 09:29 AM

The reason I said Khanjar is a Persian word is because it is mentioned in Shahnameh, which was written over 1000 years ago and was the first book post Islam that was written strictly in Persian without any Arabic words but 2. It reffers to a short knife, unlike the middle eastern khanjars of today. As far is as pronounciation, we pronounce it as it is written with KH not K and pronouncing the R not RR.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th August 2012, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ1356

The reason I said Khanjar is a Persian word is because it is mentioned in Shahnameh, which was written over 1000 years ago and was the first book post Islam that was written strictly in Persian without any Arabic words but 2. It reffers to a short knife, unlike the middle eastern khanjars of today. As far is as pronounciation, we pronounce it as it is written with KH not K and pronouncing the R not RR.

Salaams AJ1356 ~ I think that is entirely possible and Persia not only had a strategic interest after Islam in the region mainly through imposition of taxes in some coastal areas but had a significant presence in Rostaq and Bahla (They built the Bahla Fort pre Islam) in the Interior. I see no reason why it could not have been originally a Persian word. Seems reasonable to me.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A.alnakkas · 28th August 2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ1356

The reason I said Khanjar is a Persian word is because it is mentioned in Shahnameh, which was written over 1000 years ago and was the first book post Islam that was written strictly in Persian without any Arabic words but 2. It reffers to a short knife, unlike the middle eastern khanjars of today. As far is as pronounciation, we pronounce it as it is written with KH not K and pronouncing the R not RR.

Interesting. Well I only checked Lisan al Arab, perhaps a book specialized in Arabised words will be best? cant think of any..

Atlantia · 28th August 2012, 10:04 AM

Namaste Ibrahiim,

As you say most Europeans pronounce the word as spelt and sound the 'r' not just as 'Can-jaa' but actually 'Can-jar'.
My friend although English was discussing the correct Omani/Arabic pronunciation and she was adamant that the Omani's pronounce the word: 'Cun-ja'.
So is that 'soft' pronunciation localised to Oman or more widespread?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th August 2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Namaste Ibrahiim,

As you say most Europeans pronounce the word as spelt and sound the 'r' not just as 'Can-jaa' but actually 'Can-jar'.
My friend although English was discussing the correct Omani/Arabic pronunciation and she was adamant that the Omani's pronounce the word: 'Cun-ja'.
So is that 'soft' pronunciation localised to Oman or more widespread?

Salaams ~ If its written its pronounced... The Kh at the beginning is important... Kh as in Scotlands Loch..and at the end a soft r... audible but not the rolling rrr of Northumberland and Scotish dialects. Och aye rrrright?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Atlantia · 28th August 2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DK2...eature=related

In the first few seconds, you can hear the guy speaking saying both Khanjar and Janbiya :-)

Hey Lotfy.

I can hear him saying Jambiya: 'Jambeea', but not Khanjar, whats the time on the clock?
I'm glad 'Jambeea' is correct, I don't like 'Jambeyea' sounds like a Cajun dish!

28th August 2012, 07:15 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams ~ Its funny but most Europeans say canjaa.. whereas Omanis say Khunjar with a fairly strong Kh (as in the Scottish loch) at the front but a soft r...(not the rolled r) at the end ... but certainly the r is just audible. It is claimed that the word is an Arabic original absorbed and transmitted through Persia to India. The Met museum claim that the item... A dagger ...with the name of Khunjar arrived in Indian weaponry design in the 16th Century probably via Persia. The picture being worth 1000 words please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=14878:shrug: Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 28th August 2012 at 07:49 AM.

28th August 2012, 04:00 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	About middle east pronunciations I know zilch, but Indonesian is my second language and in my normal day to day family and friends conversation I speak a mix of Indonesian/Javanese/English. Now, here's the thing:- jambiyas exist in Indonesia too, and in Jawa they call them "jambio", sometimes pronounced not as "jam-bi-o" but as "jambyo", the last three letters as in "Yo dude!" I do feel that variations in pronunciation of the vowels in these two words in the middle east would depend to a very great degree upon regional pronunciation. A. alnakkas:- if the "r" is pronounced, is it rolled? That is "rrrr" ? Something like a Scotsman rolls his "r's".

28th August 2012, 04:24 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey A.G, Its Khanjar without the rrr

28th August 2012, 04:41 AM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DK2...eature=related In the first few seconds, you can hear the guy speaking saying both Khanjar and Janbiya :-)

28th August 2012, 04:52 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thank you.

28th August 2012, 09:29 AM	#6
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	The reason I said Khanjar is a Persian word is because it is mentioned in Shahnameh, which was written over 1000 years ago and was the first book post Islam that was written strictly in Persian without any Arabic words but 2. It reffers to a short knife, unlike the middle eastern khanjars of today. As far is as pronounciation, we pronounce it as it is written with KH not K and pronouncing the R not RR.

28th August 2012, 10:04 AM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Namaste Ibrahiim, As you say most Europeans pronounce the word as spelt and sound the 'r' not just as 'Can-jaa' but actually 'Can-jar'. My friend although English was discussing the correct Omani/Arabic pronunciation and she was adamant that the Omani's pronounce the word: 'Cun-ja'. So is that 'soft' pronunciation localised to Oman or more widespread?