Group of Samurai by the Sphinx in 1864

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Super cool thread! The Katana in the in the photo, looks to be a Satsuma Rebellion sword. According to the handle wrap. In looking at the Samurai in front of the Sphinx, it's a shame you can't see their cameras.

I'm just curious, what specific characteristics would you ascribe to the tsuka (and in particular the handle wrap) that you would attribute to the Satsuma Rebellion?

[trenchwarfare]

During the rebellion, any and all available blades were seized, and hastily assembled into swords. Often by unskilled individuals. Ito, was usually narrow, or even round cord. The wrapping technique was different, and left long narrow openings, revealing the same. Simple iron washers were used for menuki. The sword in the picture appears to have these narrow openings. This style wrap, also appears on WWII era Island made swords. (And, early Chinese fakes)

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

During the rebellion, any and all available blades were seized, and hastily assembled into swords. Often by unskilled individuals. Ito, was usually narrow, or even round cord. The wrapping technique was different, and left long narrow openings, revealing the same. Simple iron washers were used for menuki. The sword in the picture appears to have these narrow openings. This style wrap, also appears on WWII era Island made swords. (And, early Chinese fakes)

Hi TW,

You must have the eyes of a hawk then, as I see ito that looks pretty similar to the ito I've seen on nearly every nihonto I've ever encountered.

I get what you're saying about the ito, but at that resolution, I see no iron menuki, no plain iron band kashira or fuchi, and to me the ito looks no different than other ito.

Here's a photo of "Satsuma Rebellion koshirae:"



I put it in quotation marks as there was a good discussion on NMB a few years ago about the validity of this attribution... the Samurai who fought during the Satsuma Rebelion were just that... Samurai, and thus they would already have owned a proper katana en suite with a wakizashi, with no need for cobbled-together kazu-uchi mono. It is therefore the impression of the Curator Emeritus of the Oriental Collections of the Royal Armoury Museum at Leeds that the poorly-assembled koshirae we refer to as "Satsuma Rebellion" pieces had nothing to do with the Satsuma Rebellion!

[trenchwarfare]

I get what you're saying, as well. I'm just repeating what I've read, and observed. It does appear to me, that the tsuka in the photo, has more openings, and their closer together than most traditional swords. Perhaps, the "rebellion" swords, were the earliest form of tourista fakery?

[laEspadaAncha]

I don't think they were made for the tourist market, and in fact am certain they are/were indeed 'users.' Ian Bottomley, the aforementioned curator and author of Arms and Armour of the Samurai, suggests they were possibly the weapon of common rank and file footsoldiers.

However, this itself would preclude the inclusion of any katana, which were reserved for the Samurai class, though to be honest, I can't tell with any certainty from the above photo whether it is a katana or a wakizashi.

Oh, and Gene, I failed to mention the photo of a bunch of samurai by the Sphinx in the OP freaking rocks... Thanks for posting that mate...

Cheers,

Chris

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Ian Bottomley suggests they were possibly the weapon of common rank and file footsoldiers. However, this itself would preclude the inclusion of any katana, which were reserved for the Samurai class,

Ashigaru (foot soldiers) in certain domains and in certain time periods were considered to be samurai and would not have been prohibited from wearing a katana and wakizashi.

[Maskell]

Concerning the image in this thread, the native American holding the Japanese samurai sword. I received a copy of the same photo from a friend in MI, in 1975, said he discovered the original in a museum in Canada while doing some research. Just to keep the information with it the notation says "PHOTO OF DOG CHILD, A BLACKFOOT INDIAN WHO SERVED AS A NORTHWEST MOUNTED POLICE SCOUT" The photo was taken in the Northwest territories about 1885.

The saya (scabbard) in the photo is a tachi mounting. Pretty much like the WWII pattern of 1938 Shin Gunto army officers sword which was designed after it. A slung sword rather than the katana which was intended to be edge up. Strange photo and wonder how or why Dog Child received it?

Best,
Maskell
Jerry