New Gunong

David · 11th August 2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi David,

yes I bid because I like it!

Let us maybe not look to the time these gunongs are made, the question is: for whom are they made? Cant believe that this niece pieces are made for "tourists"!? Am I wrong??

Well, i don't think we can look at one of these questions and not the other Detlef. You put forth the idea/question that post WW2 gunongs were all made for the tourist trade.
"Post WW2 gunongs are made in my opinion for "tourists" and not for locals..."
Personally, i do not think that is true. So we agree on one front and not another i guess. I think there was definitely some call for some indigenous ownership of these weapons after WW2. Of course there is also a high-end "tourist" market, or rather a "collectors" market that i think some makers in the Philippines may still cater to. I cannot find the link (perhaps someone can assist) that was posted a while back of a current Philippines workshop that seemed to be putting out some very nicely made gunongs along with other Moro weapons. If the market is there and there are customers willing to pay for quality materials, the means and know-how do still exist to create it.

Battara · 11th August 2012, 06:13 PM

You also must understand that there are also datus during WWII and perhaps some of these were made for them.

David · 11th August 2012, 06:36 PM

Absolutely Jose, and though i don't know the history i would image that datus probably held some esteem even after the war. Anyone have a better grasp on this part of Philippines history?

David · 11th August 2012, 06:42 PM

For comparison here is an ivory hilted blade that i am pretty sure dates pre-WW2 and probably back as far as the turn of the century. Note the pommel is more elongated. Fittings are silver. Though it's hard to photograph with motion, the sheath is a beautiful chatoyant wood with a real nice flashing grain.
Size: Overall in sheath, 9inches. Blade alone, 5 1/4 inches.

David · 11th August 2012, 07:03 PM

BTW Robert, i can't get my wife to buy me anything blade related. Perhaps we could work out some kind of cultural exchange...

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

For comparison here is an ivory hilted blade that i am pretty sure dates pre-WW2 and probably back as far as the turn of the century. Note the pommel is more elongated. Fittings are silver. Though it's hard to photograph with motion, the sheath is a beautiful chatoyant wood with a real nice flashing grain.
Size: Overall in sheath, 9inches. Blade alone, 5 1/4 inches.

Again David,

this one is not fancy but beautiful and I am green with envy!

Robert · 11th August 2012, 10:50 PM

Hello everyone and thank you all for your help and the great examples that have been posted. I've again tried to get some decent pictures but as you can tell a photographer I am not. However I do believe that these do show the detailing on this a little better. The picture of the guard shows the sandwich technique used in its construction which I believe is the same used on Jose's example. They also show my poor attempt "my first ever" at etching a blade. I cleaned it with ammonia, heated it slightly and then applied lime juice. At least this way I could get a very poor picture showing its construction. It could be seen quite easily before this by looking at it from an angle but I could not get a picture that it would show in at all before applying the lime juice. I would have had more showing the belt loops construction which is the same as the guards but the batteries in my camera died, I think it was trying to tell me something.

The pictures of the scabbard do not do it justice at all, instead of better showing the giltwork, metalwork and color "which is alot deeper in person" they just seem to highlight the flaws. Anyway I hope that they are of some help. It would be nice to have a solid time frame as to when it was made and who it might have been for, but even if it is of later construction I will always hold it as one of my most prized pieces because it was a gift from my best friend, my wife.

Robert

David · 11th August 2012, 11:11 PM

Well Robert, there was never any question that this gunong is both expertly made and beautiful.

David · 12th August 2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

this one is not fancy but beautiful and I am green with envy!

Frankly, i am less inclined to assess age to gunongs the fancier they get. By fancy i mean all the filigree and extra okir work, not the materials. It seems to me that all the truly older examples tend to be simpler. When, for instance, did this bulbous filigree hilt feature first appear? It does not seem to be a feature of truly older gunongs, or am i wrong?

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

You also must understand that there are also datus during WWII and perhaps some of these were made for them.

This is exactly what I think about Roberts gunong!

Sajen · 11th August 2012, 09:54 PM

[QUOTE=David]Well, i don't think we can look at one of these questions and not the other Detlef. You put forth the idea/question that post WW2 gunongs were all made for the tourist trade.
"Post WW2 gunongs are made in my opinion for "tourists" and not for locals..."
Personally, i do not think that is true. So we agree on one front and not another i guess. I think there was definitely some call for some indigenous ownership of these weapons after WW2.QUOTE]

It was my assumption that after WW2 were made for tourists. When it isn't like this we have agreement in all parts.
I simple have had problems to believe that Roberts gunong was made for tourists.

11th August 2012, 06:42 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	For comparison here is an ivory hilted blade that i am pretty sure dates pre-WW2 and probably back as far as the turn of the century. Note the pommel is more elongated. Fittings are silver. Though it's hard to photograph with motion, the sheath is a beautiful chatoyant wood with a real nice flashing grain. Size: Overall in sheath, 9inches. Blade alone, 5 1/4 inches. Attached Images

11th August 2012, 10:50 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello everyone and thank you all for your help and the great examples that have been posted. I've again tried to get some decent pictures but as you can tell a photographer I am not. However I do believe that these do show the detailing on this a little better. The picture of the guard shows the sandwich technique used in its construction which I believe is the same used on Jose's example. They also show my poor attempt "my first ever" at etching a blade. I cleaned it with ammonia, heated it slightly and then applied lime juice. At least this way I could get a very poor picture showing its construction. It could be seen quite easily before this by looking at it from an angle but I could not get a picture that it would show in at all before applying the lime juice. I would have had more showing the belt loops construction which is the same as the guards but the batteries in my camera died, I think it was trying to tell me something. The pictures of the scabbard do not do it justice at all, instead of better showing the giltwork, metalwork and color "which is alot deeper in person" they just seem to highlight the flaws. Anyway I hope that they are of some help. It would be nice to have a solid time frame as to when it was made and who it might have been for, but even if it is of later construction I will always hold it as one of my most prized pieces because it was a gift from my best friend, my wife. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 11th August 2012 at 11:16 PM.

11th August 2012, 06:13 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	You also must understand that there are also datus during WWII and perhaps some of these were made for them.

11th August 2012, 06:36 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Absolutely Jose, and though i don't know the history i would image that datus probably held some esteem even after the war. Anyone have a better grasp on this part of Philippines history?

11th August 2012, 07:03 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	BTW Robert, i can't get my wife to buy me anything blade related. Perhaps we could work out some kind of cultural exchange...

11th August 2012, 11:11 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well Robert, there was never any question that this gunong is both expertly made and beautiful.

11th August 2012, 09:54 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	[QUOTE=David]Well, i don't think we can look at one of these questions and not the other Detlef. You put forth the idea/question that post WW2 gunongs were all made for the tourist trade. "Post WW2 gunongs are made in my opinion for "tourists" and not for locals..." Personally, i do not think that is true. So we agree on one front and not another i guess. I think there was definitely some call for some indigenous ownership of these weapons after WW2.QUOTE] It was my assumption that after WW2 were made for tourists. When it isn't like this we have agreement in all parts. I simple have had problems to believe that Roberts gunong was made for tourists.