Bali Keris

Rick · 10th September 2005, 04:48 PM

Forgive me Lord for I have coveted another's goods .

Wowzer !

BluErf · 10th September 2005, 05:12 PM

This keris deserves a place in the books! The ricikans are most unusual, especially the 2 'depressions' surrounding the sogokan.

nechesh · 10th September 2005, 05:30 PM

I totally agree with you Kai Wee. The ricikan seen quite unique here. Not only the impressions around the more common sogokan, but the way the sogokan seem to start up again further up the blade. This appears to be a very special keris.

Naga Sasra · 10th September 2005, 11:49 PM

Mickey, I sent you a pm last night regarding this piece, but received no answer back.

However, it would properly benefit all the Keris lovers in the forum to repeat my question’s in public.

For a long time I have been under the impression that the art of traditional Balinese restoration, polish and staining was a lost art, in fact I know of Balinese dealers that send their blades to Solo for staining, so my question’s is as follows:

You mention your blade took a round trip to Bali, is this blade restored, polished and stained in Bali to your knowledge?

It is hard to see in the photos, but is the blade polished in the traditional manner?

Do you believe the color of the stain would match that of the blade as it left the maker?

If it is all done the traditional way, would you mind sharing your source with the fellow forum members either via pm or in the forum?

I just love the artistic features of the blade, and look forward to your answers.

BluErf · 11th September 2005, 04:00 AM

Just to share, the older Balinese pieces which have not been re-etched has a lower contrast, and a more 'steely' looking white portions, probably due to polishing or perhaps just because they are older and have lost a bit of the sharpness in contrast. Sometimes, the 'black' looks almost bluish in these older pieces. The recently washed pieces I've seen have this 'matt white and jet black' look. Not sure if the method is more Javanese than Balinese?

Battara · 11th September 2005, 06:38 AM

Bluerf is right. I have noticed that on my Balinese keris. It is older and the nickel is silvery while the rest is a darker bluish-grey color.

Mick · 12th September 2005, 01:44 AM

Gentlemen

I do not consider myself an expert in regard to the keris and I do not mean to start an argument amongst the members of the Forum, but we have had discussions in the past about the colorations of the keris after treatment with warangan. It was noted that a possible cause for different colors was impurities in the warangan. I suggest that the differences are possibly due to at least two reasons. One being the characteristics of the “iron” that the keris is made from and the other impurities in the warangan. Other factors are possibly the temperature of the warangan solution during the process and the length of time that the solution was left on the blade. (Leaving the blade in the solution too long will even turn the nickel bearing material black which is in itself a specific form of a Javanese finish.)

I have a dozen or so Balinese kerises. All of them except for the one shown in this thread were patinated in Bali while I was present on the island. The oldest of these (I make this assumption because the pamor is adeg which is laid out in luks and the piece has been washed and polished so many times that the luks themselves are practically nonexistent) shows the dark gray base that Battara mentions in his post. Others have colors that range from dark black through the almost gun blue finish that BluErf mentions. In fact some of them range from black, dark blue, brown and up to and including a golden color in the base material of the same piece. (That is the material other than the nickel bearing material.)

I cannot say that the patinating of this blade was done in Bali. I can only say what I requested that the individual to whom I sent the blade was to do with it. I do know that he passed the blade down to Bali in order to have the scabbard made and he even had a different grip and mendak made and installed before he sent the ensemble back to me.

Due to these variations in the final colors of Balinese kerises that I know of as facts, I am extremely reluctant to get into a contest regarding the judging of the proper color for the patination of a Balinese keris.

10th September 2005, 04:48 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Forgive me Lord for I have coveted another's goods . Wowzer !

10th September 2005, 05:12 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	This keris deserves a place in the books! The ricikans are most unusual, especially the 2 'depressions' surrounding the sogokan.

10th September 2005, 05:30 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I totally agree with you Kai Wee. The ricikan seen quite unique here. Not only the impressions around the more common sogokan, but the way the sogokan seem to start up again further up the blade. This appears to be a very special keris.

10th September 2005, 11:49 PM	#4
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Mickey, I sent you a pm last night regarding this piece, but received no answer back. However, it would properly benefit all the Keris lovers in the forum to repeat my question’s in public. For a long time I have been under the impression that the art of traditional Balinese restoration, polish and staining was a lost art, in fact I know of Balinese dealers that send their blades to Solo for staining, so my question’s is as follows: You mention your blade took a round trip to Bali, is this blade restored, polished and stained in Bali to your knowledge? It is hard to see in the photos, but is the blade polished in the traditional manner? Do you believe the color of the stain would match that of the blade as it left the maker? If it is all done the traditional way, would you mind sharing your source with the fellow forum members either via pm or in the forum? I just love the artistic features of the blade, and look forward to your answers.

11th September 2005, 04:00 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Just to share, the older Balinese pieces which have not been re-etched has a lower contrast, and a more 'steely' looking white portions, probably due to polishing or perhaps just because they are older and have lost a bit of the sharpness in contrast. Sometimes, the 'black' looks almost bluish in these older pieces. The recently washed pieces I've seen have this 'matt white and jet black' look. Not sure if the method is more Javanese than Balinese?

11th September 2005, 06:38 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,305	Bluerf is right. I have noticed that on my Balinese keris. It is older and the nickel is silvery while the rest is a darker bluish-grey color.

12th September 2005, 01:44 AM	#7
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Gentlemen I do not consider myself an expert in regard to the keris and I do not mean to start an argument amongst the members of the Forum, but we have had discussions in the past about the colorations of the keris after treatment with warangan. It was noted that a possible cause for different colors was impurities in the warangan. I suggest that the differences are possibly due to at least two reasons. One being the characteristics of the “iron” that the keris is made from and the other impurities in the warangan. Other factors are possibly the temperature of the warangan solution during the process and the length of time that the solution was left on the blade. (Leaving the blade in the solution too long will even turn the nickel bearing material black which is in itself a specific form of a Javanese finish.) I have a dozen or so Balinese kerises. All of them except for the one shown in this thread were patinated in Bali while I was present on the island. The oldest of these (I make this assumption because the pamor is adeg which is laid out in luks and the piece has been washed and polished so many times that the luks themselves are practically nonexistent) shows the dark gray base that Battara mentions in his post. Others have colors that range from dark black through the almost gun blue finish that BluErf mentions. In fact some of them range from black, dark blue, brown and up to and including a golden color in the base material of the same piece. (That is the material other than the nickel bearing material.) I cannot say that the patinating of this blade was done in Bali. I can only say what I requested that the individual to whom I sent the blade was to do with it. I do know that he passed the blade down to Bali in order to have the scabbard made and he even had a different grip and mendak made and installed before he sent the ensemble back to me. Due to these variations in the final colors of Balinese kerises that I know of as facts, I am extremely reluctant to get into a contest regarding the judging of the proper color for the patination of a Balinese keris.