What the heck is this one? ...

Tim Simmons · 10th September 2005, 08:13 AM

It looks too solid and well forged for tourist stuff and not enough fancy wire work or twiddly goldie looking bits on it to me but I suppose it is possible. I think North Africa is the most obvious guess but West Africa is still my favourite, one of those many royal or chief or office parade knives. The handle form just happens to appear atypical. I have just been thinking of some religous festivals in some parts of the world involve followers brandishing rather strange weapons and often self harming, I think these events happened more in the past. I wonder if anyone could come up with a picture of something similar. Tim

Marc · 14th September 2005, 09:49 AM

Funny thing is, they're not THAT unusual... I have two more with the same general overall features in one of the Museum Collections I'm cataloguing right now. Sorry, no pictures yet, though if there's interest I may put them up when I manage to have them removed from storage (may be one month or so before I can, so don't hold your breath...). Anyway, the basic characteristics are the same than this ebay one, tough one has a wood grip instead than a bone one and none have finger grooves. The bone grip also feature decoration with circular dots. The recurved one is exactly the same, down to the arrow-head finials, and the blade also features such a file-worked unsharpened "ricasso" (for lack of a better term).
Additionally, out of the documental tracking I'm doing from the pieces, at least one of them comes from a lot that entered the museum in 1946, and there's a good probability that its original acquisition reaches back to some point in the last quarter of the 19th c, though this is not confirmed yet.

I thought West Africa, also, when I first saw them, but my knowledge of African weapons is sadly lacking, I'm afraid. Somebody once said, here, that some West African tribes made their own interpretation of European swords (hangers and cutlasses) as prestige items. Maybe this can be a hint. The forgework is rather crude, in these exemplars...

Sorry for coming to this without pictures, but I thought that it was worth mentioning that this ebay piece wis not a one-of-a-kind occurrence...

Bill · 14th September 2005, 10:59 AM

very interesting sword. strikes me as from India, maybe some sort of temple sword. seller describes as 1800 & that the hilt has not been cut down, both seem plausible. would love to handle & try to experiment with it, likely the original user had very thin hands. could the small hilt be in order for quick movement; if used to chop, the force would come from the second hand above the guard.

10th September 2005, 08:13 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	It looks too solid and well forged for tourist stuff and not enough fancy wire work or twiddly goldie looking bits on it to me but I suppose it is possible. I think North Africa is the most obvious guess but West Africa is still my favourite, one of those many royal or chief or office parade knives. The handle form just happens to appear atypical. I have just been thinking of some religous festivals in some parts of the world involve followers brandishing rather strange weapons and often self harming, I think these events happened more in the past. I wonder if anyone could come up with a picture of something similar. Tim

14th September 2005, 09:49 AM	#2
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Funny thing is, they're not THAT unusual... I have two more with the same general overall features in one of the Museum Collections I'm cataloguing right now. Sorry, no pictures yet, though if there's interest I may put them up when I manage to have them removed from storage (may be one month or so before I can, so don't hold your breath...). Anyway, the basic characteristics are the same than this ebay one, tough one has a wood grip instead than a bone one and none have finger grooves. The bone grip also feature decoration with circular dots. The recurved one is exactly the same, down to the arrow-head finials, and the blade also features such a file-worked unsharpened "ricasso" (for lack of a better term). Additionally, out of the documental tracking I'm doing from the pieces, at least one of them comes from a lot that entered the museum in 1946, and there's a good probability that its original acquisition reaches back to some point in the last quarter of the 19th c, though this is not confirmed yet. I thought West Africa, also, when I first saw them, but my knowledge of African weapons is sadly lacking, I'm afraid. Somebody once said, here, that some West African tribes made their own interpretation of European swords (hangers and cutlasses) as prestige items. Maybe this can be a hint. The forgework is rather crude, in these exemplars... Sorry for coming to this without pictures, but I thought that it was worth mentioning that this ebay piece wis not a one-of-a-kind occurrence...

14th September 2005, 10:59 AM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	very interesting sword. strikes me as from India, maybe some sort of temple sword. seller describes as 1800 & that the hilt has not been cut down, both seem plausible. would love to handle & try to experiment with it, likely the original user had very thin hands. could the small hilt be in order for quick movement; if used to chop, the force would come from the second hand above the guard.