SCHIAVONA SWORD VARIATIONS.

fernando · 25th July 2012, 01:39 PM

Maybe upside down ?

.

Enibas · 26th July 2012, 07:15 AM

Hello Pappa-karlo,

just I saw your niece piece. Quite perfect hilt, nice pommel.

I guess, that the stamped letters are cyrillic.
We can find a sciavona, also younger type (18th century ) with "three ladders" in the Collection Carl Beck. Sursee (Swiss). There is the name "Sava" stamped in cyrillic letters into the hilt (http://www.waffensammlung-beck.ch/waffe67.html). The author Boccia mentions five Sciavone with the lettering "Sava" in cyrillic. It is assumed that this is the name of the master, who built the hilts.
Thus, it could be here to be a master signature
In this case, would Pappa-Karlo's sciavona also a hint that not only o n e master in cyrillic letters signed. Certainly there were no Italians, signed in Cyrillic, but there were craftsmen from abroad. Perhaps these craftsmen came from the Balkans. The rich Venice undoubtedly attracted numerous artisans from abroad and also had the need.

May be someone in the forum who can translate this cyrillic letters?

Very unusually is the plate at the hilt.
I am sorry, I did not found a english term for "Stichblatt"

. Never see before. But I've seen other modifications to sciavone. and do not rule out that the plate is mounted original. Thank your very much for showing, Pappa-Karlo!

pappa-karlo · 26th July 2012, 01:59 PM

Thank you very much for your detailed response. It's very interesting. I think this should be name. I found the Serbian alphabet, but only a couple of letters are similar. Not easy question.

aurelius56 · 7th October 2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Maybe upside down ?

.

Hello, this is my very first post :-) Yes - this letters are so called Croatian Cyrilic used up to the end of XVIII cent. and it reads Grgur (Gregory). It is very common marking on 3-row late XVIII cent. schiavona hilts. This particullar schiavona is mounted with XVIII cent. Austrian pallosh blade - not uncommon at all.
Regards, Zlatko

Addition - you may find longer version of this inscription in E.Oakeshott: "European Weapons and Armour" page 189 fig. 87 - "Grgur majstor" - meaning Gregory artisan - indicating local hilt production in Dalmatia.

fernando · 8th October 2012, 01:10 PM

Welcome to the forum Zlatko

.
Interesting observation on the Croatian Cyrilic inscription.
Have you any swords you would like to show us ?

Norman McCormick · 8th October 2012, 03:49 PM

Hi Zlatko,
The script on this Austrian mounted Pala has so far eluded translation, maybe you recognise the form? Oh, and welcome to the Forum, the nicest bunch of "eccentrics"

you'll ever meet.

Regards,
Norman.

aurelius56 · 8th October 2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Zlatko,
The script on this Austrian mounted Pala has so far eluded translation, maybe you recognise the form? Oh, and welcome to the Forum, the nicest bunch of "eccentrics"

you'll ever meet.

Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,
unfortunately I do not recognize this characters :-(
They might be some talismanic magical signs or Russian Cyrilic - sorry.
Regards, Zlatko

Norman McCormick · 9th October 2012, 03:10 PM

Hi Zlatko,
Many thanks for taking the time to look.

My Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 9th October 2012, 09:40 PM

Great sword Zlatko,
Thanks a lot for sharing.
Listen, why don't you open a thread/s to post your collection examples ?

aurelius56 · 8th October 2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Welcome to the forum Zlatko

.
Interesting observation on the Croatian Cyrilic inscription.
Have you any swords you would like to show us ?

Hi, yes I have several schiavonas in my collection.
For the start, here is the one with more elaborate hilt construction than usual
Early XVII cent, broad blade with short fuller, on both sides "marca di mosca" (Belluno?), iron pommel. Well proportioned and homogenuosus sword. Unfortunately previous owner used some acid to clean the sword :-(
Total length 105 cm; blade 90,5 cm; width 4,8 cm

25th July 2012, 01:39 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Maybe upside down ? . Attached Images

26th July 2012, 07:15 AM	#2
Enibas Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 13	Unkown master? Hello Pappa-karlo, just I saw your niece piece. Quite perfect hilt, nice pommel. I guess, that the stamped letters are cyrillic. We can find a sciavona, also younger type (18th century ) with "three ladders" in the Collection Carl Beck. Sursee (Swiss). There is the name "Sava" stamped in cyrillic letters into the hilt (http://www.waffensammlung-beck.ch/waffe67.html). The author Boccia mentions five Sciavone with the lettering "Sava" in cyrillic. It is assumed that this is the name of the master, who built the hilts. Thus, it could be here to be a master signature In this case, would Pappa-Karlo's sciavona also a hint that not only o n e master in cyrillic letters signed. Certainly there were no Italians, signed in Cyrillic, but there were craftsmen from abroad. Perhaps these craftsmen came from the Balkans. The rich Venice undoubtedly attracted numerous artisans from abroad and also had the need. May be someone in the forum who can translate this cyrillic letters? Very unusually is the plate at the hilt. I am sorry, I did not found a english term for "Stichblatt" . Never see before. But I've seen other modifications to sciavone. and do not rule out that the plate is mounted original. Thank your very much for showing, Pappa-Karlo!

8th October 2012, 03:49 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Zlatko, The script on this Austrian mounted Pala has so far eluded translation, maybe you recognise the form? Oh, and welcome to the Forum, the nicest bunch of "eccentrics" you'll ever meet. Regards, Norman. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 8th October 2012 at 06:19 PM.

26th July 2012, 01:59 PM	#3
pappa-karlo Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 15	Thank you very much for your detailed response. It's very interesting. I think this should be name. I found the Serbian alphabet, but only a couple of letters are similar. Not easy question.

8th October 2012, 01:10 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum Zlatko . Interesting observation on the Croatian Cyrilic inscription. Have you any swords you would like to show us ?

9th October 2012, 03:10 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Zlatko, Many thanks for taking the time to look. My Regards, Norman.

9th October 2012, 09:40 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great sword Zlatko, Thanks a lot for sharing. Listen, why don't you open a thread/s to post your collection examples ?