Sele from Makassar (Keris Bugis)

Alam Shah · 6th September 2005, 04:12 PM

Beats me?

I don't know why it is done that way. Only assumptions.
The outer part of the luks are more prone to rust and corrosion. It might be a reason. Just guessing.

Henk · 6th September 2005, 07:21 PM

Kai,

I'm not very good on wood species. Certainly not from pictures. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a sheath made by someone who isn't a sheathcarver at all. Maybe the previous european owner. The form is a walikat sandang but not very elegant as a walikat sandang should be. It could be very well made of pine wood. In that case my theorie could come very close to the truth.

The blade could be shortenend very well. There are some signs to it. The proportions of the prabot are to big for the length of the blade. And the blade is to broad in comparison to its length

kai · 11th July 2007, 10:13 PM

Hello Henk,

Sorry for forgetting to answer!

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a sheath made by someone who isn't a sheathcarver at all. Maybe the previous european owner.

Yes, I agree that the scabbard is badly/sloppily done. However, the former owner still resides in Indonesia and it wouldn't make any sense to obtain/use European pine wood when decent woods can be easily obtained locally...

Quote:

The blade could be shortenend very well. There are some signs to it. The proportions of the prabot are to big for the length of the blade. And the blade is to broad in comparison to its length

Exactly. I'm sure that the blade was redone (and shortened). I'm still wondering about the style in which this was done though. It seems to be off for any aesthetic standards on Jawa AFAIK. It seems a bit closer to the macho-esque appearance of many Sulawesi keris blades though...

Any other insights from our friends experienced in things Jawa (or Sulawesi!)? Thanks!

Regards,
Kai

possum · 13th July 2007, 12:38 PM

looks like the blade, the hilt, hilt cup and the sheath are from different origins. from the photos ... looks like the sheath should be bigger than the one you have, the hilt should be smaller.

keris bugis is definitely not .... it is extremely rare for a keris to be "lok 3". usually keris lok 3 is used by womens. it is easier to conceal them.

sometime keris lok 3 is being used as a house for the spirits or khadams to protect the owner of the keris.

PenangsangII · 16th July 2007, 03:20 PM

Dear Possum & other keris lovers,

On the contrary, Lok 3 keris are produced more compare to lok 5, 7 & so on as according to Malay's belief, the more loks the keris is, the higher the position the bearer (and more talismanic values). However, since lok 3 was reserved to the lowest ranking courtiers, they are not really appealing to current collectors due to obvious reasons, furthermore, most of the lower ranking courtiers, after their retirement, mostly they just disappeared (because they were less significant) thus less we see lok 3 keris nowadays. This principle does not apply however, to straight blades.

kai · 17th July 2007, 12:25 AM

Hello all,

Thanks for the continued input!

I agree that this is a really weird piece (and very likely a mix from different sources). I kinda like odd-balls though...

I'm not looking for high praise but rather would like to understand why this very basic keris ended up like it did and how this relates to local use/customs/etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

looks like the blade, the hilt, hilt cup and the sheath are from different origins. from the photos ... looks like the sheath should be bigger than the one you have, the hilt should be smaller.

Yes, I agree that the scabbard is pretty much rubbish and was never meant to be worn openly. It's also the youngest part of the ensemble with the "pendokok" probably a close second. The hulu seems to be of decent quality though. Can we ascertain that the blade is/was Javanese?

Quote:

keris bugis is definitely not ....

I have typical keris Bugis and the difference is obvious, of course. However, can we really rule out that this blade got modified and used in Sulawesi?

Quote:

it is extremely rare for a keris to be "lok 3". usually keris lok 3 is used by womens. it is easier to conceal them.

I'm certain this blade had more luk originally. However, the way the blade got reshaped seems to suggest that concealment may have been the main aim, doesn't it? The scabbard may support this but, considering its doubtful status, I admit that this is a weak point.

Any additional insights?

Regards,
Kai

13th July 2007, 12:38 PM	#4
possum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1	kai looks like the blade, the hilt, hilt cup and the sheath are from different origins. from the photos ... looks like the sheath should be bigger than the one you have, the hilt should be smaller. keris bugis is definitely not .... it is extremely rare for a keris to be "lok 3". usually keris lok 3 is used by womens. it is easier to conceal them. sometime keris lok 3 is being used as a house for the spirits or khadams to protect the owner of the keris.

6th September 2005, 04:12 PM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Beats me? I don't know why it is done that way. Only assumptions. The outer part of the luks are more prone to rust and corrosion. It might be a reason. Just guessing.

6th September 2005, 07:21 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Kai, I'm not very good on wood species. Certainly not from pictures. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a sheath made by someone who isn't a sheathcarver at all. Maybe the previous european owner. The form is a walikat sandang but not very elegant as a walikat sandang should be. It could be very well made of pine wood. In that case my theorie could come very close to the truth. The blade could be shortenend very well. There are some signs to it. The proportions of the prabot are to big for the length of the blade. And the blade is to broad in comparison to its length

16th July 2007, 03:20 PM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Dear Possum & other keris lovers, On the contrary, Lok 3 keris are produced more compare to lok 5, 7 & so on as according to Malay's belief, the more loks the keris is, the higher the position the bearer (and more talismanic values). However, since lok 3 was reserved to the lowest ranking courtiers, they are not really appealing to current collectors due to obvious reasons, furthermore, most of the lower ranking courtiers, after their retirement, mostly they just disappeared (because they were less significant) thus less we see lok 3 keris nowadays. This principle does not apply however, to straight blades.