Matchlock Pistol ?

rickystl · 25th June 2012, 03:39 PM

Hello Michael !!! And Fernando!!!
I'm returning to this tread rather belatedly.
Michael: Thank you so much for your reply. This is what us collectors/shooters have always thought. But your explanation put things in exact perspective. On behalf of myself and others, THANK YOU!!

Also, the photos of that matchlock revolver and barrels was a big hit!

Fernando: Thanks for the photo. What I found most interesting when I dis-assembled my original Japanese matchlock long gun was that the entire gun was assembled with pins. Not a single screw on the gun. It was actually a clever way to assemble. The pins that held the barrel to the stock were bamboo!!

Another question for Michael: Most European mathlocks I've seen have the serpentine pointing towards the shooter. But some have the serpentine pointing forward toward the muzzle (like Japanese guns). In your opinion, is the forward pointing serpentine a later design change? Or just a different design? The question arouse in trying to determine when the forward serpentine started to evolve. Thanks for any help. Rick.

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 05:21 PM

Hi Rick,

I am glad you found my contribution helpful, thanks.

As to the direction the serpentine moved: this is quite a demanding request but I will try and reply shortly within the given frame of this post.

In the earliest known illustration of a matchlock, Cod.vind. 3069, dated 1411, the serpentine - holding not a length of match but a piece of tinder!! - acts forward (top attachment).
It does likewise on the oldest known actually surviving completely preserved arquebus, ca. 1400-10, the spring-loaded serpentine and hook both working-time replacements of ca. 1430; in my collection (two photos attached).

It is only by the early 16th c. that we find the next-in-line illustrations in the Maximilian armory inventories, with serpentines for tinder depicted acting mostly backward, but in one instance also acting forward.

In the Marienkirche Reutlingen, Southern Germany, there is a sculpture of an arquebusier at the Holy Selpucher, 1513, the serpentine of his arquebus acting backward (2 photos).

In the Museum of the Fürstentum Lüneburg, Northern Germany, I photographed an altar piece of the Last Judgement, of ca. 1520, depicting a skeleton firing his tinderlock (!) arquebus with the serpentine acting forward (1 att.)

On tapestries on the Battle of Pavia, 1525, the tinderlock serpentines act forward, and from the 1530's to 40's we have instances of surviving arquebuses (four in the author's collection, attached) with matchlock serpentines acting in both directions, but mostly backward.

By the 1560's thru the early 18th c., the backward-acting matchlock has established itself as the standard military weapon while on special-purpose guns, e.g. target guns and muskets with combined matchlock and wheellock or combined snap- and lever-matchlock mechanisms, we still find serpentines acting towards the muzzle.

Please also check out my other threads on early tinder- and matchlocks!

Just a few:

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15668

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+1540+harquebus

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+1540+harquebus

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...andsknecht+1540

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...necht+harquebus

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...necht+harquebus

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets

- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 05:22 PM

Let's go on with the attachments:

- Battle of Pavia tapestries, 1525 (4 att.)

- four Landsknecht matchlock arquebuses, ca. 1525 (top) to 1540, the third from top dated 1539; author's colln. (1)

- woodcuts of Landsknecht arquebusiers, 1530's

- military matchlock muskets, Nuremberg, dated 1567 and 1568, Graz armory

m

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 06:12 PM

And last not least:

- military matchlock and wheellock muskets, ca. 1570-1720 in chronological order from left to right, author's colln.

- a matchlock chronology from ca. 1520-1720, all author's colln.

- the earliest known surviving complete snap-tinderlock mechanism with lateral push-button trigger (!), comprising all mechanical parts on a lock plate, ca. 1510, the measurements in cm; autor's colln.

- the latter, together with two detached matchlock mechanisms of ca. 1620 and 1650, retaining all of their original bluing! (author's colln.)

Enjoy, and do check out my other threads on matchlock-related topics!
You will be surprised, I promise!

thinreadline · 25th June 2012, 10:35 PM

Along these same lines, I was last night watching the historically atrocious film 'Elizabeth - The Golden Age' .... pistols appear in a couple of scenes , including one execution and also the attempted ( and fictional ) assassination of Queen Elizabeth by Anthony Babington ... I could not see them in any detail but assume they were put in to 'sex up ' the story for American viewers.

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 11:07 PM

I did not see that film, just heard of it.

I prefer sticking to the facts which I hope I have managed to assemble.

m

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 11:11 PM

An instance of a tinderlock arquebus with 'back-action' serpentine.

From the record of a Nuremberg training shooting taking place at St. Johanns (corresponding to St. Johannis, nowadays forming part of the City of Nuremberg); dated 1532.

m

thinreadline · 26th June 2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I did not see that film, just heard of it.

I prefer sticking to the facts which, I hope, I have managed to assemble.

m

And indeed you do Matchlock , but nevertheless I would love to hear your views on what the pistol is supposed to be and why the film makers have felt the need to represent it.

25th June 2012, 05:21 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, I am glad you found my contribution helpful, thanks. As to the direction the serpentine moved: this is quite a demanding request but I will try and reply shortly within the given frame of this post. In the earliest known illustration of a matchlock, Cod.vind. 3069, dated 1411, the serpentine - holding not a length of match but a piece of tinder!! - acts forward (top attachment). It does likewise on the oldest known actually surviving completely preserved arquebus, ca. 1400-10, the spring-loaded serpentine and hook both working-time replacements of ca. 1430; in my collection (two photos attached). It is only by the early 16th c. that we find the next-in-line illustrations in the Maximilian armory inventories, with serpentines for tinder depicted acting mostly backward, but in one instance also acting forward. In the Marienkirche Reutlingen, Southern Germany, there is a sculpture of an arquebusier at the Holy Selpucher, 1513, the serpentine of his arquebus acting backward (2 photos). In the Museum of the Fürstentum Lüneburg, Northern Germany, I photographed an altar piece of the Last Judgement, of ca. 1520, depicting a skeleton firing his tinderlock (!) arquebus with the serpentine acting forward (1 att.) On tapestries on the Battle of Pavia, 1525, the tinderlock serpentines act forward, and from the 1530's to 40's we have instances of surviving arquebuses (four in the author's collection, attached) with matchlock serpentines acting in both directions, but mostly backward. By the 1560's thru the early 18th c., the backward-acting matchlock has established itself as the standard military weapon while on special-purpose guns, e.g. target guns and muskets with combined matchlock and wheellock or combined snap- and lever-matchlock mechanisms, we still find serpentines acting towards the muzzle. Please also check out my other threads on early tinder- and matchlocks! Just a few: - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15668 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...andsknecht+1540 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...necht+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...necht+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...tchlock+muskets Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th June 2012 at 08:02 PM.

25th June 2012, 05:22 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Let's go on with the attachments: - Battle of Pavia tapestries, 1525 (4 att.) - four Landsknecht matchlock arquebuses, ca. 1525 (top) to 1540, the third from top dated 1539; author's colln. (1) - woodcuts of Landsknecht arquebusiers, 1530's - military matchlock muskets, Nuremberg, dated 1567 and 1568, Graz armory m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 26th June 2012 at 12:09 AM.

25th June 2012, 06:12 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	And last not least: - military matchlock and wheellock muskets, ca. 1570-1720 in chronological order from left to right, author's colln. - a matchlock chronology from ca. 1520-1720, all author's colln. - the earliest known surviving complete snap-tinderlock mechanism with lateral push-button trigger (!), comprising all mechanical parts on a lock plate, ca. 1510, the measurements in cm; autor's colln. - the latter, together with two detached matchlock mechanisms of ca. 1620 and 1650, retaining all of their original bluing! (author's colln.) Enjoy, and do check out my other threads on matchlock-related topics! You will be surprised, I promise! Just a few: - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15668 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ndsknecht+1540 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th June 2012 at 07:03 PM.

25th June 2012, 11:07 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I did not see that film, just heard of it. I prefer sticking to the facts which I hope I have managed to assemble. m Last edited by Matchlock; 26th June 2012 at 10:19 PM.

25th June 2012, 11:11 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An instance of a tinderlock arquebus with 'back-action' serpentine. From the record of a Nuremberg training shooting taking place at St. Johanns (corresponding to St. Johannis, nowadays forming part of the City of Nuremberg); dated 1532. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 26th June 2012 at 10:25 PM.

25th June 2012, 03:39 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hello Michael !!! And Fernando!!! I'm returning to this tread rather belatedly. Michael: Thank you so much for your reply. This is what us collectors/shooters have always thought. But your explanation put things in exact perspective. On behalf of myself and others, THANK YOU!! Also, the photos of that matchlock revolver and barrels was a big hit! Fernando: Thanks for the photo. What I found most interesting when I dis-assembled my original Japanese matchlock long gun was that the entire gun was assembled with pins. Not a single screw on the gun. It was actually a clever way to assemble. The pins that held the barrel to the stock were bamboo!! Another question for Michael: Most European mathlocks I've seen have the serpentine pointing towards the shooter. But some have the serpentine pointing forward toward the muzzle (like Japanese guns). In your opinion, is the forward pointing serpentine a later design change? Or just a different design? The question arouse in trying to determine when the forward serpentine started to evolve. Thanks for any help. Rick.

25th June 2012, 10:35 PM	#5
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Along these same lines, I was last night watching the historically atrocious film 'Elizabeth - The Golden Age' .... pistols appear in a couple of scenes , including one execution and also the attempted ( and fictional ) assassination of Queen Elizabeth by Anthony Babington ... I could not see them in any detail but assume they were put in to 'sex up ' the story for American viewers.