Keris holder for comment

Atlantia · 24th June 2012, 07:07 PM

I also have a Twalen figure of I would imagine similar age.
I think everyone has a Twalen or two?

sirek · 24th June 2012, 08:46 PM

Atlantia · 24th June 2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirek

LOL, couple of Twalens, couple of Hanuman....

A. G. Maisey · 24th June 2012, 11:43 PM

Tunggalametung, I don't think we should use the word "gelung" to describe a warrior's hairstyle. "Gelung" is ngoko for the traditional Javanese women's hairstyle, it is modified by:- gelung kondhe , the everyday style with the bun at the back; gelung boko, which is for ceremonies and special events; gelung supit urang, with a little bun on each side of the head; gelung tekuk, generic for special hairstyles.

No, I'm not a hairdresser. I knew that "gelung" was for women, and when I checked my memory before I posted I found all these other hairstyles.

On the subject of Bali keris size, historically --- and I'm going way, way back --- keris size related to hierarchical position:- big keris : high position. Very old Balinese keris can be quite small, you're absolutely right, not all Bali keris are big.

Gene

Thanks for the close ups. Yes, definite tendency towards Bhima, I agree that this character was probably intended, Bhima Bratasena.

Additionally, your close ups show the paint work better, and I tend to think it could be a little older than my first estimate, however, that light wood is a dead give away, it cannot be other than a souvenir with wood like that.

tunggulametung · 25th June 2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Tunggalametung, I don't think we should use the word "gelung" to describe a warrior's hairstyle. "Gelung" is ngoko for the traditional Javanese women's hairstyle, it is modified by:- gelung kondhe , the everyday style with the bun at the back; gelung boko, which is for ceremonies and special events; gelung supit urang, with a little bun on each side of the head; gelung tekuk, generic for special hairstyles.

Hello Alan, I'm not wayang expert but I'm certain gelung is a valid wayang term. However I check the link that I gave last night and Bayu should use Ketu Dewa (god turban) in Javanese term, not gelung. Jean example is not wayang, and in 3 D object as in statue, I think I remember Balinese depiction on Bayu is without turban (specific to wayang art to differentiate between characters).

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No, I'm not a hairdresser. I knew that "gelung" was for women, and when I checked my memory before I posted I found all these other hairstyles.

LOL yes in present day gelung is for woman (and some male rockers, artists, etc for that matter) but in the old days man grows their hair long. So in the old days gelung is a valid term also for man. Gelung may be freely translated as ikat/kuncir but with some sort of fold, so ponytail did not count. Anyway, the term is not generally used outside the contexts you already specified.

A. G. Maisey · 25th June 2012, 08:10 AM

Yeah, I guess "gelung" could have been used differently in past times. I've just asked a couple of native speakers of Javanese and their immediate answer was that it could only be used for women, but then when I asked if it could be used for a man if he had long hair, after discussion between themselves they decided that it could be, so since wayang characters have long hair it seems legitimate to use it in that context --- or, as you say, it could be a legit wayang term. I know very little about wayang so I don't have any opinion on this.

24th June 2012, 07:07 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I also have a Twalen figure of I would imagine similar age. I think everyone has a Twalen or two? Attached Images

24th June 2012, 08:46 PM	#2
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 171	Attached Images

24th June 2012, 11:43 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	Tunggalametung, I don't think we should use the word "gelung" to describe a warrior's hairstyle. "Gelung" is ngoko for the traditional Javanese women's hairstyle, it is modified by:- gelung kondhe , the everyday style with the bun at the back; gelung boko, which is for ceremonies and special events; gelung supit urang, with a little bun on each side of the head; gelung tekuk, generic for special hairstyles. No, I'm not a hairdresser. I knew that "gelung" was for women, and when I checked my memory before I posted I found all these other hairstyles. On the subject of Bali keris size, historically --- and I'm going way, way back --- keris size related to hierarchical position:- big keris : high position. Very old Balinese keris can be quite small, you're absolutely right, not all Bali keris are big. Gene Thanks for the close ups. Yes, definite tendency towards Bhima, I agree that this character was probably intended, Bhima Bratasena. Additionally, your close ups show the paint work better, and I tend to think it could be a little older than my first estimate, however, that light wood is a dead give away, it cannot be other than a souvenir with wood like that.

25th June 2012, 08:10 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	Yeah, I guess "gelung" could have been used differently in past times. I've just asked a couple of native speakers of Javanese and their immediate answer was that it could only be used for women, but then when I asked if it could be used for a man if he had long hair, after discussion between themselves they decided that it could be, so since wayang characters have long hair it seems legitimate to use it in that context --- or, as you say, it could be a legit wayang term. I know very little about wayang so I don't have any opinion on this.