Twistcore kris with... erm.. Wha-- What is this?

[Battara]

I'm with Kai on this one. I also agree - keep the baka-baka and the ferrule, lose the rest of the hilt. However, I might say slightly older, perhaps no earlier than the 1860s?

[ThePepperSkull]

Thanks for the info, gents!

I was thinking of keeping the ferrule and baca-baca, and replacing the rest of the hilt with a simple narra kakatua pommeled hilt with wrapping laquered black.

I thought the hilt it had on now may have been a hilt form from another culture, but seeing as it is a western repair/re-hilt, I won't feel bad getting rid of the rest of it.

Although, the metal buddha, etc pieces on the grip remind me of Japanese menuki. Possibly from a smaller blade like a tanto. Does anyone know if the buddha was a common type of menuki form used? I know the fudo myo-o was a figure that featured in a lot of old katana menuki, but the buddha I am not sure of.

[VANDOO]

I PERSONALLY WOULD LOOK INTO THIS ITEM A BIT MORE BEFORE I RUSHED TO DISCARDED THE CURRENT HANDLE AND MAKE IT MORE NORMAL. AT PRESENT IT IS UNIQUE AND FROM THE PICTURES THE HANDLE DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE SOME RECENT POORLY DONE JOB BY AN UNSKILLED WESTERNER. HOW IS THE BALANCE DOES THE HANDLE FIT THE BLADE PROPERLY FOR ACTUAL USE IN BATTLE. I WOULD THINK IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE OF ASIAN DESIGN AND BUDHIST SPECIFICALLY. CHECK THE TWO DECORATIVE BUTTONS AS WELL AS THEY MAY BE OF SOME SIGNIFICANCE. THE CORD OR WIRE MAY SHED SOME INFORMATION AS WELL, IS IT SILK?. WITH A BIT OF RESEARCH SOME OF THIS KRIS STORY MAY BE REAVEALED. WITH A NEW HANDLE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER NICE BLADE WITH A NEW HANDLE. AT PRESENT IT MAY NOT BE OF ABSOLUTE PURE FORM BUT IT IS A BIT OF A MYSTERY. IS THE WORKMANSHIP GOOD AND ARE THE METAL FITTINGS CHEAP OR DO THEY SHOW AGE AND GOOD WORKMANSHIP THIS SHOULD HELP TO DETERMINE YOUR COURSE OF ACTION. NICE ONE I LIKE IT.

[ThePepperSkull]

If it is indeed a hilt form from another culture, I will do my research and see what i can come up with.

Perhaps if I plan on restoring the Kris with cultural-approriate hilt, I will keep the old hilt intact as well. Perhaps try and find a blade more suited for it?

Or I may go with your suggestion, Vandoo, and just keep it as it is. If the hilt is indeed a distinct ethnographic form as opposed to a western replacement, it's bound to have an interesting story to it. If only these blades would speak.

[Spunjer]

i'm with vandoo... i don't understand what's the deal with throwing away the handle. it's obvious that it's not a traditional handle, but the moros of your has been known to use non-traditional items on their weapon. added a couple of pictures that have i not known the provenance of this particular shield, i would definitely thought of it as a western addition. the bottle bottom bosed is a pre-1898 shield. it would be a pity if you throw the handle away and somehow come to find out, this was original to the sword.
nice twisty core, brah! can't wait to see after you clean the blade. hopefully etched to bring out all her splendid beauty!!!

[mross]

I'm in favor of not messing with it. Here are some of my arguments;
1) From what the pics show the handle and wrap look well done.
2) There does appear to be some age to the rehilt, yes I know that can be faked
3) More importantly; the rehilit incorporated the ferrule and baca-baca. This means someone understood or at least wanted to preserve what was there. I lean toward someone knew what they were doing as these things have a habit of being removed and sold.
4) It's kinda a unique and someone went through some effort to do it that way which means it may have some history behind it.

All that said; nice piece! These are a favorite of mine, so I have fondness for them and like to see them preserved un-altered as much as possible.

[VANDOO]

I THINK ITS GOOD TO GO SLOW WHEN DECIDING TO RE-ARRANGE OR REPLACE THINGS ON A WEAPON. I HAVE HAD THE UNFORTUNATE EXPERIENCE OF HAVING A KRIS HANDLE THOUGHT TO BE ON BACKWARDS TURNED AROUND ONLY TO FIND THE WEAPON WAS THEN OFF BALANCE AND OFF CENTER AND FELT LIKE IT HAD A BENT TANG. THIS RENDERED THAT KERIS A VERY POOR WEAPON WHICH CERTIANLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN TOLERATED BY ANY MORO WARRIOR. I TOO CAN'T ABIDE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A SWORD BUT HAS THE BALANCE OF A TIRE IRON.
JUDGE BY WORKMANSHIP, MATERIALS USED, AND THE FEEL OF THE WEAPON IN THE HAND.
YOUR EXAMPLE SEEMS TO HAVE A WOOD FOUND IN THE PHILIPPINES AND SOME AGE BUT DOES APPEAR TO HAVE VARNISH ON IT WITH SOME WEAR. IT COULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGED IN BATTLE AND THE HANDLE REPLACED BY SOME NON-MORO PERSON.
WERE THERE ANY ASIAN TROOPS THERE DURING THE SPANISH TIMES OR THE EARLY AMERICAN PRESENCE? THERE WERE CERTIANLY JAPANESE PRESENT DURING WW2 AND CHINESE TRADE GOES WAY BACK IN TIME. AS YOU SAID I WISH THESE THINGS COULD TALK AS MANY INTERESTING STORIES HAVE BEEN LOST.

[kai]

I'm in favor of not messing with it.

I have no real stake in this since the current caretaker is entitled to make a wise decision. Please allow a few comments though to explain my reasoning:

1) From what the pics show the handle and wrap look well done.

Certainly not a traditional grip wrap (i.e. not any Moro style) and I would be surprised if the flared pommel doesn't come in the way when "playing" with the sword.

2) There does appear to be some age to the rehilt, yes I know that can be faked

Very possibly vintage. Extra points for an old mistake, anyone?

3) More importantly; the rehilit incorporated the ferrule and baca-baca. This means someone understood or at least wanted to preserve what was there. I lean toward someone knew what they were doing as these things have a habit of being removed and sold.

Would have anyone with a passing knowledge of Moro kris pommels come up with this flared pommel including a brass cap?

4) It's kinda a unique and someone went through some effort to do it that way which means it may have some history behind it.

Ok, don't toss it but keep it in a drawer (I never throw collection pieces away). IMVHO keeping this combo "as is" is a disgrace to the neat blade though.

All that said; nice piece! These are a favorite of mine, so I have fondness for them and like to see them preserved un-altered as much as possible.

I'm with you regarding preserving genuine pieces. I don't see any point in preserving mistakes that most likely have been done outside the originating culture by people with possibly good intentions but obviously very limited knowledge.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Ron,

it's obvious that it's not a traditional handle, but the moros of your has been known to use non-traditional items on their weapon.

I suspect this hilt make the kris pretty much dysfunctional.

I also have a very hard time to imagine any self-respecting Moro to come up with this weird pommel, a bad (smooth) grip wrapping, and, especially, with 2 human figures representing a kind of deity outside the Muslim realm? This just doesn't cut it, IMHO.

Regards,
Kai