Navajas of the Galleons

[fernando]

No Dmitry, no swords.
May antecipate Chris?
Felipe V pragmatic (decree) of December 1721 reads:

We impose that those who are caught with puñales, giferos, rejones and other short white arms; if they are Noble, the penalty of six years in the Presidium, and if they are Peasants, six years in the galleys ...

The three specified weapons were dagger variations of the period. The expression "other short white arms" leaves no doubt to Forton that included navajas.

[Dmitry]

Thanks, Fernando.
Looks like the King was not keen on the concealed weapons on dry land. I would assume that he was also not keen on the concealable weapons on board his ships.

[Rick]

In a time when even giving your superior a wry look would buy you a flogging; I have got to agree about this form not being a Sailor's knife .

[Chris Evans]

Dmtry,

Fernando beat me to it (I was asleep down under!)


Fernando,

Thank you.

Cheers
Chris

[M ELEY]

Thank you gents for finally clearing this issue up for me. As you know, many naval references are being updated and the older manuals still mention these as side knives. It makes sense that the cargoes of these lost ships would have been carrying knives and razors to the New World, and their discovery on the wrecks lead to the confusion. The same goes for the large groups of un-hilted sword blades often found. However, I'd bet a silver cobb or two that there were pirates/privateers that carried them-

[fernando]

I wouldn't digest this thing of sailors not being allowed to carry knives without some extra mastication.
The reasoning of, only crew members with an appointed craft be allowed to use them, is perhaps a bit ambiguous.
I am too lazy to browse the books looking for evidence, but in a first thought i would say that, the majority of sailors aboard had one or more crafts to perform; in a way that was the (multi) purpose of professional sailors. Maybe not mechanic jobs like carpentry, or fixing the water pumps, but mending sails, tying ropes and that sort of things. I can not imagine a sailor without a knife; not a folding knife, with a concealing intent, but a tool knife, for a zillion needs inherent from being aboard ship.
If a mutiny had to take place, it was not the knife which played the nuclear key for such decision. Lots of devices found aboard could be used as weapons. Even admiting that only selected artisans could bear knives, this would not be a secure way to prevent mutiny ... either in their own hands or grabed by other men.
Discipline aboard and contention of conflicts passed by other measures.
Besides rank sailors, ships garrison was more diverse, including soldiers and artillery men ... although firearms and gun powder were kept locked and only distributed in case of iminent combat.
Concerning the social status of crew members, ironically were the soldiers that were "drafted" in streets, taverns or prisons and not sailors, as these would have to be more qualified for the job. Soldiers were not so much required to know how to shoot a musket or handle a pike, as sailors had to undoubtedly know how to operate a ship.
In this last one (and half) paragraph i am citing the chroniclers.

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

I think that a key consideration here is the weapon potential of an early, that is pre XVIII century, navaja. As far as I can make it out, in the absence of reliable diagrams/paintings and surviving specimens, this has to remain a moot point.

Forton thought that the XVII century navajas had weapon potential but did not advance evidence for this and given that all extant specimens that could fill this role pertain to the post Borbon ascent, I remain unconvinced.

This is not to say that simple, non-locking friction type folders were not around before the 1700s, as they were for centuries, but rather that these would not have served as weapons of any significance. Without a lock, a folding knife is not a weapon, as evidenced by current UK legislation.

Cheers
Chris

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by fernando

Concerning the social status of crew members, ironically were the soldiers that were "drafted" in streets, taverns or prisons and not sailors

That is not the case. Sailors were pressed onto ships en masse, not all of course, but significant numbers. That's the main reason that most were not allowed to disembark when in port, or they would inevitably run off. Whores were brought on board instead.
Much valuable information on the life of sailors in the age of sail exists.

BTW, scrimshaw is not done with a knife, it's scratched into the ivory with a sharp needle, also called a scribe.