Anyone recognizeStamps on Cinquedea

[longfellow]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Longfellow and Norman,

I have known these star-shaped of flower-like punches as simple decorative patterns for the standard blacksmith's workshop. E.g., many 18th and 19th c. axe heads show them.

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael.

Thank you very much. There were a few axes in his collection, too and perhaps that is where I have the vague recollection of seeing something like those stars/flowers. There were so many pieces, so little time and so much information to pour over that, at my age, the ram seems to be full and I have to flush the cache every once in a while to add more information. The nudge is appreciated!

[Matchlock]

Thanks, Longfellow,

I know that state of mind, believe me!

Many everyday-use items of ironwork such as door hinges or anvils often also show such punched star- or flower-like designs.

For genuine early-16th c. North Italian cinquedeae, their characteristically fluted blades and marks, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=cinquedeae


Best,
m

[longfellow]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Thanks, Longfellow,

I know that state of mind, believe me!

Many everyday-use items of ironwork such as door hinges or anvils often also show such punched star- or flower-like designs.

For genuine early-16th c. North Italian cinquedeae, their characteristically fluted blades and marks, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=cinquedeae


Best,
m

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the link. Those are some real nice looking pieces (understatement smilie here) and the information is priceless!

Had I not gotten off onto Japanese potteries and porcelains and other Oriental areas, I would have been right there in the midst of collecting edged pieces. The Japanese swords nearly tipped me far enough that direction, however, I will be satisfied with some of the pieces I acquired from the collection (I still have the Black Sea Yataghan).

Thank you, once again, for taking the time with this, sometimes, rather dense person.

[Matchlock]

Hi Longfellow,

I must say I have only encountered one single person here so far whom I would call 'dense', and it's definitely not you!

Providing useful information has always been a pleasure to me.

Best,
m

[Jim McDougall]

Longfellow (outstanding moniker!! and I heartily concur with Michael, you are anything but 'dense' and I admire the approach you are taking to the handling of the weapons of your fathers estate. As I recall from my early days of collecting in Southern California, there were some great arms which ended up in Santa Barbara along with many other regions near Los Angeles and Hollywood. There were many weapons in the warehouses of the movie studios, in fact I recall many cases of deaccessing these items, many which were convincing props and many authentic. Valentino himself became a sword collector through many authentic items acquired and used in his films.

Michael is of course spot on with noting the use of these decorative stamps in axes and various tools made by blacksmiths, and it seems this kind of simple decorative arrangement was used with simple floral and other devices. There were many stage props and theatrical weapons produced in the 19th century for productions, besides the very impressive reproductions made for gentlemans parlors and smoking rooms in these times. I can recall research being done, on a cinquedea which was used for opera performances some time ago, but this was a quite early one which may even have had illustrious connections to the Borgia's descendants but cannot recall details at the moment. I think it was being published.

In any case, even these weapons which were made for theatrical use typically have fascinating histories of thier own.

All the best,
Jim

[longfellow]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Longfellow (outstanding moniker!! and I heartily concur with Michael, you are anything but 'dense' and I admire the approach you are taking to the handling of the weapons of your fathers estate. As I recall from my early days of collecting in Southern California, there were some great arms which ended up in Santa Barbara along with many other regions near Los Angeles and Hollywood. There were many weapons in the warehouses of the movie studios, in fact I recall many cases of deaccessing these items, many which were convincing props and many authentic. Valentino himself became a sword collector through many authentic items acquired and used in his films.

Michael is of course spot on with noting the use of these decorative stamps in axes and various tools made by blacksmiths, and it seems this kind of simple decorative arrangement was used with simple floral and other devices. There were many stage props and theatrical weapons produced in the 19th century for productions, besides the very impressive reproductions made for gentlemans parlors and smoking rooms in these times. I can recall research being done, on a cinquedea which was used for opera performances some time ago, but this was a quite early one which may even have had illustrious connections to the Borgia's descendants but cannot recall details at the moment. I think it was being published.

In any case, even these weapons which were made for theatrical use typically have fascinating histories of thier own.

All the best,
Jim

Hi Jim,

Thank you for the note. Yes, theatrical use was a large market for the use of reproductions and some were quite good. My dad was in theatre for many years, having graduated from Julliard.

You are quite correct about the weapons that are in the prop departments (or, were, at least). Picked up a Spencer carbine - the one where the clip slides into the butt of the stock) at an antique mall in Pasadena after being deaccessed by the 20th Century Fox studio. They used to use the real thing, especially for the close-up shots. At this very moment, I'm sitting here with a Japanese matchlock pistol on my lap and the similar rifle on the floor next to me trying to reconcile the fact that they may be real and have been hanging on the wall over my dad's chair for the past 35 years, at least - they came from an estate sale down the street.

Ah, but for the good old days. Those things don't happen around Santa Barbara, or even Hollywood much any more. Everything goes through auction or everybody knows the friend of a friend who knows an antique dealer.

My thanks to Michael. A valuble asset to have on your forums.

*Dimitry, you have more tact than I frequently have. Thank you but I'm one of those who wouldn't have taken offense had you just laughed out loud. Some of us know when we don't know, but thank you again for your tact.

Best regards to all and thank you.