A cup hilt rapier

fernando · 20th May 2012, 05:10 PM

Some (maybe not) better pictures

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Such a pity that, as i feared, one of the beautiful extensions that hold the dust guard washer is missing

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Chris Evans · 21st May 2012, 12:17 AM

Fernando,

Thanks for the measurements.

As I commented on the other rapier, this one's blade is also on the short side for a rapier. Again, was the length taken from the cup or the quillons?

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 21st May 2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

... As I commented on the other rapier, this one's blade is also on the short side for a rapier. Again, was the length taken from the cup or the quillons? ...

Sorry Chris

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I have an amateur manner to measure blades as from the cup bowl

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87,5 cms from the quillons. Still not so long, but there are no signs of it having being shortened.

Chris Evans · 23rd May 2012, 12:04 PM

Fernando,

Thanks for the measurement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Sorry Chris

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I have an amateur manner to measure blades as from the cup bowl

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87,5 cms from the quillons. Still not so long, but there are no signs of it having being shortened.

This morning, our time, I thought I posted a reply, but it appears to have vanished, so here I go again:

That length corresponds to a transition rapier, intermediary between the classic long rapier and the later small sword. If my recollection is right, Castle told us that the cup hilted transition rapier was still in use in Spain, (Portugal?) during the 18th century - Though probably not in refined circles, as the Spanish Bourbons affected French customs and by that time the small sword superseded the rapier in France.

So your sword either pertains to the transitional period or was made for a man of very small stature, a child perhaps.

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 23rd May 2012, 06:43 PM

Thank you for your input Chris,
In fact, cup hilted swords kept being built in both Spain and Portugal until the XVIII century and, those that survived, were used in local conflicts still in the beg. XIX century, when the various civil wars forced the population to seek resource in every weapon at hand.
I don't think these (somehow) short swords were made for boys; in such cases cup bowl and grips should also be smaller ... and the blade would be even shorter.
Small adults abounded in those days in the Peninsula; no surprise if several swords were commissioned or later shortened for those guys.

20th May 2012, 05:10 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Some (maybe not) better pictures . Such a pity that, as i feared, one of the beautiful extensions that hold the dust guard washer is missing . Attached Images

21st May 2012, 12:17 AM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Fernando, Thanks for the measurements. As I commented on the other rapier, this one's blade is also on the short side for a rapier. Again, was the length taken from the cup or the quillons? Cheers Chris

23rd May 2012, 06:43 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your input Chris, In fact, cup hilted swords kept being built in both Spain and Portugal until the XVIII century and, those that survived, were used in local conflicts still in the beg. XIX century, when the various civil wars forced the population to seek resource in every weapon at hand. I don't think these (somehow) short swords were made for boys; in such cases cup bowl and grips should also be smaller ... and the blade would be even shorter. Small adults abounded in those days in the Peninsula; no surprise if several swords were commissioned or later shortened for those guys.