Pala Kilic Wootz? with European Hilt.

Atlantia · 13th May 2012, 04:02 PM

A very fine sword indeed Norman. Did you have to remortgage the farm for that one??

Looks pattern welded and not wootz to me.
Be careful with any etching as you of course also have western military type etched designs.

A very, VERY light etch with warm vinegar might show more, but be careful.

ariel · 13th May 2012, 04:11 PM

Third pic shows some pseudo-arabic gibberish. I am sure the blade is not eastern of whatever origin: european imitation. Very nice and unusual sword. Would be interesting to now whether it was a regulation pattern, place of manufacture etc.

A.alnakkas · 13th May 2012, 04:17 PM

Nice one. I really like the blend! The inscription at the top says "bashir almumeneen" (bring glad tidings to the believers. Quranic verse) the bottom one says "hibir/hisir (?) albab" (I think its either a name or a sufi reference albab means door)

What about the latin inscription? I cant read it... Maybe some date is there?

Norman McCormick · 13th May 2012, 04:24 PM

Hi,
Many thanks for your comments and help re the translation, I'm a bit lost as to the Latin inscription, which text do you mean?
My Regards,
Norman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Nice one. I really like the blend! The inscription at the top says "bashir almumeneen" (bring glad tidings to the believers. Quranic verse) the bottom one says "hibir/hisir (?) albab" (I think its either a name or a sufi reference albab means door)

What about the latin inscription? I cant read it... Maybe some date is there?

Norman McCormick · 13th May 2012, 11:04 PM

Hi,
Sword sold by Christies described as an Austrian officers presentation sabre .
Regards,
Norman.

A.alnakkas · 14th May 2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Many thanks for your comments and help re the translation, I'm a bit lost as to the Latin inscription, which text do you mean?
My Regards,
Norman.

Hey mate,

I meant the 3rd picture. Seems like latin letters to me.

Norman McCormick · 14th May 2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey mate,

I meant the 3rd picture. Seems like latin letters to me.

Hi,
See what you mean but not Latin, am thinking from somewhere possibly in the Eastern part of the Austro-Hungarian empire but am a bit stumped at the moment. Looks for all the world like a set of three initials and a date????
My Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 14th May 2012, 05:26 PM

It occured to me that the crescent moon with three stars might pertain to a particular part of the empire. That might help to ID the script?

Dom · 14th May 2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

I'm a bit lost as to the Latin inscription

Hi every body
no Latin inscription, the alphabet used seems to be Cyrillic

may be "Serb" or "Macedonian"
when we'll know from where this alphabet,
we'll know, from where it's came from, this beautiful "Pala"

we dunno at all to read Eastern languages

à +

Dom

A.alnakkas · 14th May 2012, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi every body
no Latin inscription, the alphabet used seems to be Cyrillic

may be "Serb" or "Macedonian"
when we'll know from where this alphabet,
we'll know, from where it's came from, this beautiful "Pala"

we dunno at all to read Eastern languages

à +

Dom

Salam Alaikum Bro!

Well done. Could this be from albanians maybe? No idea, i am just guessing, highly doubt that Serbs will quote Quran so it could be muslims speaker of the language.

ariel · 14th May 2012, 02:44 AM

Ain't no Cyrillic. It does remind some Cyrillic letters, but no more than Arabic ones.

A.alnakkas · 14th May 2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Ain't no Cyrillic. It does remind some Cyrillic letters, but no more than Arabic ones.

who ever made the etching have normally used Arabic on one side. Makes no sense if he/she would etch pseudo Arabic gibberish on the other side. Imho, there is a 'k' and '5' on the other 'latin' inscription but I could be wrong. Interesting piece anyways!

Norman McCormick · 13th May 2012, 04:13 PM

Hi Gene,
Many thanks for your thoughts. I thought about it being a European blade but the patterned steel, the Arabic script and there is a hint of the etching having been gilded, small amount of gold where the hilt touches the blade, made me think it was Turkish. This is out of my comfort zone so I'm 'stabbing' in the dark. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Yeah it wasn't cheap.

Norman McCormick · 13th May 2012, 04:16 PM

Hi Ariel,
Thanks for the reply. Would a European blade sport 'star and crescent'
other than the earlier style sun, moon and stars motifs?
My Regards,
Norman.

13th May 2012, 11:04 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, Sword sold by Christies described as an Austrian officers presentation sabre . Regards, Norman. Attached Images

13th May 2012, 04:02 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	A very fine sword indeed Norman. Did you have to remortgage the farm for that one?? Looks pattern welded and not wootz to me. Be careful with any etching as you of course also have western military type etched designs. A very, VERY light etch with warm vinegar might show more, but be careful.

13th May 2012, 04:11 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Third pic shows some pseudo-arabic gibberish. I am sure the blade is not eastern of whatever origin: european imitation. Very nice and unusual sword. Would be interesting to now whether it was a regulation pattern, place of manufacture etc.

13th May 2012, 04:17 PM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Nice one. I really like the blend! The inscription at the top says "bashir almumeneen" (bring glad tidings to the believers. Quranic verse) the bottom one says "hibir/hisir (?) albab" (I think its either a name or a sufi reference albab means door) What about the latin inscription? I cant read it... Maybe some date is there?

14th May 2012, 05:26 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It occured to me that the crescent moon with three stars might pertain to a particular part of the empire. That might help to ID the script?

14th May 2012, 02:44 AM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ain't no Cyrillic. It does remind some Cyrillic letters, but no more than Arabic ones.

13th May 2012, 04:13 PM	#13
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Gene, Many thanks for your thoughts. I thought about it being a European blade but the patterned steel, the Arabic script and there is a hint of the etching having been gilded, small amount of gold where the hilt touches the blade, made me think it was Turkish. This is out of my comfort zone so I'm 'stabbing' in the dark. Thanks again. My Regards, Norman. P.S. Yeah it wasn't cheap.

13th May 2012, 04:16 PM	#14
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Ariel, Thanks for the reply. Would a European blade sport 'star and crescent' other than the earlier style sun, moon and stars motifs? My Regards, Norman.