Pala Kilic Wootz? with European Hilt.

Norman McCormick · 14th May 2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey mate,

I meant the 3rd picture. Seems like latin letters to me.

Hi,
See what you mean but not Latin, am thinking from somewhere possibly in the Eastern part of the Austro-Hungarian empire but am a bit stumped at the moment. Looks for all the world like a set of three initials and a date????
My Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 14th May 2012, 05:26 PM

It occured to me that the crescent moon with three stars might pertain to a particular part of the empire. That might help to ID the script?

A.alnakkas · 14th May 2012, 05:31 PM

Just noticed the crescent and stars. Reminds me of my straight Yemeni Karabella..

Atlantia · 14th May 2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Just noticed the crescent and stars. Reminds me of my straight Yemeni Karabella..

Three crescent moons and three stars.... interesting.

Wasn't that the first flag of the independant Egypt a crescent moon and three stars??

Edit: add flag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...Egypt_1922.svg

A.alnakkas · 14th May 2012, 06:14 PM

Hey Gene, How you doing? :-)

I have suggested this before in a discussion with Iain (or Gav, cant remember) I think the stamp is Egyptian khediwi symbol on my sword. Could this be the same for Norman's pala? Maybe its european made for Egypt when the army was being standardised there.. Just guessing really ;P

Norman McCormick · 14th May 2012, 07:47 PM

Hi Guys,
See what you mean about the Egyptian connection but a couple of things bother me about that. The configuration of the crescent and stars are not the same and more than that, generally the hilts on military swords especially of the 19thC denote the country of origin by some symbol or design on the basket, in this case the shape and design of this particular 'honeysuckle' basket says to me Austria, Austro-Hungarian empire or possibly Switzerland or even Southern German States although of course an emerging military anywhere could use a readily available design. The aforementioned doesn't explain the Koranic verse on the blade which, of course, tends to point to an Islamic state as an origin although this would not necessarily discount European provenance as the 'Orientalist' taste was very popular in 19thC Europe. I'm convinced that the sword is certainly mid 19thC give or take a bit. Thanks to all for their input so far.
Regards,
Norman.

14th May 2012, 05:31 PM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Just noticed the crescent and stars. Reminds me of my straight Yemeni Karabella.. Attached Images

14th May 2012, 05:26 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It occured to me that the crescent moon with three stars might pertain to a particular part of the empire. That might help to ID the script?

14th May 2012, 06:14 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Gene, How you doing? :-) I have suggested this before in a discussion with Iain (or Gav, cant remember) I think the stamp is Egyptian khediwi symbol on my sword. Could this be the same for Norman's pala? Maybe its european made for Egypt when the army was being standardised there.. Just guessing really ;P

14th May 2012, 07:47 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Guys, See what you mean about the Egyptian connection but a couple of things bother me about that. The configuration of the crescent and stars are not the same and more than that, generally the hilts on military swords especially of the 19thC denote the country of origin by some symbol or design on the basket, in this case the shape and design of this particular 'honeysuckle' basket says to me Austria, Austro-Hungarian empire or possibly Switzerland or even Southern German States although of course an emerging military anywhere could use a readily available design. The aforementioned doesn't explain the Koranic verse on the blade which, of course, tends to point to an Islamic state as an origin although this would not necessarily discount European provenance as the 'Orientalist' taste was very popular in 19thC Europe. I'm convinced that the sword is certainly mid 19thC give or take a bit. Thanks to all for their input so far. Regards, Norman.