Keris Bahari?

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Folks,
I am confused: isn't there some kind of convention establishing borders between panjang, bahari and anak-alang in terms of their length?

Ariel, if you are looking for exact delineation lines between these 3 form you will not find them. Bahari is the short form (approx. 9-12 in.), anak alang is the medium form (approx. 14-17 in.) and panang is the long form (approx. 18-22 in.). There is always room for argument for blades that fall close to either form. At 18.5 inch though, i feel confident in saying that your keris is not a bahari. At that length i would call it a keris pajang though someone might say it is a longer anak alang.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Ariel, if you are looking for exact delineation lines between these 3 form you will not find them. Bahari is the short form (approx. 9-12 in.), anak alang is the medium form (approx. 14-17 in.) and panang is the long form (approx. 18-22 in.). There is always room for argument for blades that fall close to either form. At 18.5 inch though, i feel confident in saying that your keris is not a bahari. At that length i would call it a keris pajang though someone might say it is a longer anak alang.

The classification given by David is commonly accepted but by no way universal nor guaranteed. I don't want to confuse the matter but just say that it may also be different in Sumatra and Malaysia respectively.
For those of you who are interested, you can refer to the Ensiklopedi Keris pages 64 & 87, and to the book "Keris and other Malay weapons" by Gerald B. Gardner pages 19, 21, 24, 25, 27, and 45. However I have to say that the information from these books is questionable and that again the correct names are not that important
The opinion from our Malaysian or Singapore members will be appreciated.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The classification given by David is commonly accepted but by no way universal nor guaranteed. I don't want to confuse the matter but just say that it may also be different in Sumatra and Malaysia respectively.
For those of you who are interested, you can refer to the Ensiklopedi Keris pages 64 & 87, and to the book "Keris and other Malay weapons" by Gerald B. Gardner pages 19, 21, 24, 25, 27, and 45. However I have to say that the information from these books is questionable and that again the correct names are not that important
The opinion from our Malaysian or Singapore members will be appreciated.
Regards

Jean, there is very little in the keris world that is ever "universal" or "guaranteed". Your mileage may vary. I think i was clear about that in my answer to Ariel.

[ariel]

Thanks to everyone for providing interesting information. On a lighter side, I am glad I was not the only one confused about proper classification of this keris :-)

I also understand that the scabbard is not a masterpiece of indonesian art, to put it mildly, and is likely to be a replacement. Nevertheless, if we forget about it, what is your opinion about the keris itself? How old is it likely to be? On a scale of 1 to 10, where does it stand as panjangs go?

[kai]

Hello Ariel,

I also vote for it being a keris panjang.

IMO all fittings are probably fairly recent: The hilt and pendokok will do - could certainly be replaced if you find anything nice though; the scabbard could need some improvement - if there's enough wood, one could try to grind away the carving. Covering them up with embossed silver would be another option but having a good, traditional scabbard made for the blade is better (and probably cheaper)...

IMHO, the blade is a rather nice example: (at least) 19th c. with subtle laminations and rare full-length fullers; without a thorough cleaning and etching (hot vinegar should do), I wouldn't want to judge wether the gonjo is original (even if replaced as often needed during the life of a blade, it looks old and well done).

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

IMO all fittings are probably fairly recent: The hilt and pendokok will do - could certainly be replaced if you find anything nice though; the scabbard could need some improvement - if there's enough wood, one could try to grind away the carving. Covering them up with embossed silver would be another option but having a good, traditional scabbard made for the blade is better (and probably cheaper)...

Just my own take on this, but i think sometimes we need to accept a keris and/or it's parts for what it is. Many collectors seem too quick to upgrade, often beyond the quality of the blade itself. This sheath is certainly not ideal and the design on the stem is unusual for this form, but it probably did come from an Indonesian source. It is certainly much more recent than the blade. While i would consider re-finishing it, i don't think i would consider grinding away the carving. The finish is pretty poorly done and if to removed it and refinished it you probably would only improve the look. I like the pendokok and would not consider changing it.
The blade could use some cleaning. I would try a pineapple juice soak with regular brushing with a tooth brush. It's a nice old blade that should clean up well.

[Sajen]

I am not 100% sure but think that handle, pendokok and sampir are old and only the batang is a later replacement. But don't would try to grind away the carvings since they seems to be fairly deep and you will see it when finished. I would let it in this state or maybe replace it when I really like the keris. Agree with David that I would clean the blade and give it a etch.

Regards,

Detlef