Krazy Kris Krosses

VVV · 1st May 2012, 09:09 PM

Nice catch Ron,
I waited too long and then it was gone...

The cross is, as Jim mentioned, often used as a universal geometric pattern to symbolize the four cardinal directions.
On talismans, in several other Muslim regions, it disperses evil forces away from the carrier, like a metaphysical shield.

Michael

Spunjer · 2nd May 2012, 02:11 AM

thank you david and thank you, jim, for a thorough explanation! the european blade angle was due to the talismanic symbols. my train of thought were as follows: heraldic cross on the kris, hence european in origin since it was something i don't ever recall seeing on any moro weapon before.. i reckon it was easy to jump to that conclusion due to the spaniards' presence. i have to bring it up to the more knowledgeable european weapons collector if it was indeed what i thought it was. well, that clarifies that...

michael, have you ever seen these types of symbols in any of your moro swords? even those weird marks somewhat in the middle of the cross sequences doesn't seem to fit on any talismanic markings in the moro realm..

VVV · 2nd May 2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

[...] michael, have you ever seen these types of symbols in any of your moro swords? even those weird marks somewhat in the middle of the cross sequences doesn't seem to fit on any talismanic markings in the moro realm..

No, never. But I have this kris with five stars in a cross along its blade. It's also a (related?) motif I haven't seen on any other blade. Because of traveling, trade and pilgrimage odd motifs show up now and then, especially if they have a magic charge.

Michael

migueldiaz · 2nd May 2012, 04:20 PM

the bagobo shield (upper right hand corner in the pic) sometimes have cross-like symbols, too ...

Spunjer · 3rd May 2012, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

the bagobo shield (upper right hand corner in the pic) sometimes have cross-like symbols, too ...

i think i see where you're going with this, lorenz... geographically, how close are the bagobos with either the maguindanaos or maranaos???
i notice the pattern going down. could just be a coincident. i notice the shield smack in the middle as well...

Battara · 3rd May 2012, 03:03 AM

I thought the Bagobo were in the southeastern part of Mindanao while the Maguindanao and Maranao are on the northwest of the island.............

However, could the sign also be for the 4 directions as well?

Spunjer · 3rd May 2012, 03:51 AM

possibility, jose, but why aren't these symbols more commonly used? my assumption on where lorenz was going was whoever owned this kris has strong bagobo ties; perhaps a former bagobo slave that eventually stayed with the tribe, or something to that effect.

btw, googled the area where the bagobos lived. and they were practically next door to the maguindanaos (upland bagobo, that is)...

2nd May 2012, 04:20 PM	#4
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	the bagobo shield (upper right hand corner in the pic) sometimes have cross-like symbols, too ... Attached Images

1st May 2012, 09:09 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice catch Ron, I waited too long and then it was gone... The cross is, as Jim mentioned, often used as a universal geometric pattern to symbolize the four cardinal directions. On talismans, in several other Muslim regions, it disperses evil forces away from the carrier, like a metaphysical shield. Michael

2nd May 2012, 02:11 AM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thank you david and thank you, jim, for a thorough explanation! the european blade angle was due to the talismanic symbols. my train of thought were as follows: heraldic cross on the kris, hence european in origin since it was something i don't ever recall seeing on any moro weapon before.. i reckon it was easy to jump to that conclusion due to the spaniards' presence. i have to bring it up to the more knowledgeable european weapons collector if it was indeed what i thought it was. well, that clarifies that... michael, have you ever seen these types of symbols in any of your moro swords? even those weird marks somewhat in the middle of the cross sequences doesn't seem to fit on any talismanic markings in the moro realm..

3rd May 2012, 03:03 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	I thought the Bagobo were in the southeastern part of Mindanao while the Maguindanao and Maranao are on the northwest of the island............. However, could the sign also be for the 4 directions as well?

3rd May 2012, 03:51 AM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	possibility, jose, but why aren't these symbols more commonly used? my assumption on where lorenz was going was whoever owned this kris has strong bagobo ties; perhaps a former bagobo slave that eventually stayed with the tribe, or something to that effect. btw, googled the area where the bagobos lived. and they were practically next door to the maguindanaos (upland bagobo, that is)...