Handgonnes with iron stock

Matchlock · 27th April 2012, 03:49 PM

In the Musée de l'Armée, Paris, inv.no. M.1, ca. 1430, the period when hooks seemed to appear for the first time; made of wrought-iron bars and rings (Stabringgeschütz).

As the touch hole should be situated on top but obviously is not on the photo it seems that the ring bearing the hook is movable and displaced from its working position.

m

fernando · 27th April 2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

In the Musée de l'Armée, Paris, inv.no. M.1, ca. 1430, the period when hooks seemed to appear for the first time; made of wrought-iron bars and rings (Stabringgeschütz).

m

What would its caliber be, Michl ?

Matchlock · 27th April 2012, 05:07 PM

Hi 'Nando,

That's what I would like to now too but the museum catalog I scanned the image from does not provide any measurements, and when I attended the Musée de l'Armée by special appointment and was allowed to photograph anything I wished to, the Medieval Department was sadly closed.
Thus I could not see or access the piece but I estimate its overall length to be ca. 60-70 cm, which would make a bore of ca. 20-30 mm seem reasonable.
As the barrel walls seem relatively thin it is probable that, as was often the case, the originally smaller 'bore' was widened during the later working life of the gonne.

Best,
Michl

Matchlock · 30th April 2012, 01:57 PM

My friend Alexender photographed this very interesting specimen in the Artillery Museum St. Petersburg:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tillery+museum

I wish to repost his images in another of his threads where they probably belong the most, which is here.

The overall length of this huge and heavy all-iron tiller gone is 1.92 m, the monstrous bore 10.5 cm, denoting that it was not a portable but strictly stationary piece. Its rear grip end is shaped like the hilt of a knife and laterally punched with a series of decorative cross-shaped elements. The hook is rather short and blunt, mounted on a ring, and the outer surface of the gun retains its completely original red minium paint.

As the piece is fitted with a hook, and the right-hand side touch hole has what seems to be an integrally wrought pan molding, a date of late 15th c. seems appropriate.

This is the biggest tiller gun by far I have ever noticed! Its sheer dimensions are unbelievable!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 30th April 2012, 02:22 PM

A close-up of the rudimentary pan-like molding beneath the touch hole, to receive the priming powder and be touched by an igniting iron or a length of smoldering slow match.

m

27th April 2012, 03:49 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	In the Musée de l'Armée, Paris, inv.no. M.1, ca. 1430, the period when hooks seemed to appear for the first time; made of wrought-iron bars and rings (Stabringgeschütz). As the touch hole should be situated on top but obviously is not on the photo it seems that the ring bearing the hook is movable and displaced from its working position. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 27th April 2012 at 07:18 PM.

27th April 2012, 05:07 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, That's what I would like to now too but the museum catalog I scanned the image from does not provide any measurements, and when I attended the Musée de l'Armée by special appointment and was allowed to photograph anything I wished to, the Medieval Department was sadly closed. Thus I could not see or access the piece but I estimate its overall length to be ca. 60-70 cm, which would make a bore of ca. 20-30 mm seem reasonable. As the barrel walls seem relatively thin it is probable that, as was often the case, the originally smaller 'bore' was widened during the later working life of the gonne. Best, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 27th April 2012 at 07:02 PM.

30th April 2012, 01:57 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	My friend Alexender photographed this very interesting specimen in the Artillery Museum St. Petersburg: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...tillery+museum I wish to repost his images in another of his threads where they probably belong the most, which is here. The overall length of this huge and heavy all-iron tiller gone is 1.92 m, the monstrous bore 10.5 cm, denoting that it was not a portable but strictly stationary piece. Its rear grip end is shaped like the hilt of a knife and laterally punched with a series of decorative cross-shaped elements. The hook is rather short and blunt, mounted on a ring, and the outer surface of the gun retains its completely original red minium paint. As the piece is fitted with a hook, and the right-hand side touch hole has what seems to be an integrally wrought pan molding, a date of late 15th c. seems appropriate. This is the biggest tiller gun by far I have ever noticed! Its sheer dimensions are unbelievable! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 30th April 2012 at 04:11 PM.

30th April 2012, 02:22 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A close-up of the rudimentary pan-like molding beneath the touch hole, to receive the priming powder and be touched by an igniting iron or a length of smoldering slow match. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 30th April 2012 at 04:16 PM.