Show off your Chinese fighting knives :)

KuKulzA28 · 27th March 2012, 02:41 AM

Nice picture! I have heard many are made of pig skin, but I would guess any sort of leather would do. Interestingly, there's "Ping Pu" (Taiwan's indigenous peopl eof the plains, now largely assimilated) knives that look quite similar to these Chinese fighting knives, and their sheaths are usually cord-wrapped and wooden.

Well, I think part of the reason for their large size is, well, you could get away with it (socially more acceptable?) better back then. Nowadays in many places having a knife well-suited for killing is already asking for trouble - unless it's covert and hidden from view. But to be honest I think in back in the day, in times of peace and in more affluent areas, unless an acceptable or expected part of man's daily attire, weaponry held in the open was usually not acceptable in most cultures... Then again, soldiers, bandits, thugs, and folks from the countryside lived outside the norms of normal urbanites, right?

Plus, for fighting, a big knife has a lot of advantages. You can stab deeper and have a longer cutting edge to cut and slice. As these are very good stabbers, this would make sense. Aside from concealment and surprise, small knives for fighting don't have those combat advantages. They're also pretty sharp - at least mine is, and the edge is good. For utility, a longer cutting edge is always good. Another thought... the handle is very plain in geometry, comfortable and versatile. This knife can easily be in any normal grip: held edge up or down, blade up or down. A very simple design, but pretty effective.

The participation of American cutlers is very cool, I did not know that. But this makes sense... Europe and America had many skilled smiths/manufacturers and they made blades for local markets everywhere... from Indian and African swords to African, Oceanic, and Latin American machetes... and tomahawks, spears, and arrowheads before that for Native Americans.

David R · 28th March 2012, 12:04 AM

Sticking my two pennyworth in, I think the heavy pommel is a dead giveaway that it is a fighting knife. It is a style seen on Chinese Jian maces, re the example below. I have pics of others in like style, and I am told it can even appear on swords.

KuKulzA28 · 28th March 2012, 03:29 AM

I've never seen it on swords, but I do agree that it's a fighting oriented weapon and pommels like that aren't typically on utility knives... ever.

I wonder, where did that pommel style originate?
I do see it on maces, Chinese sai, iron rods, and of course these knives.

I've been thinking about utility for this knife, and sure it's got a sharp edge, it can be used for utility. But I think looking for a utility is futile. It was probably a man's everyday carry and meant for defense and murder, but could easily be used for mundane tasks if need be. But the purpose and design of the knife seems be like (like I keep saying) for stabbing. It's got as much utility as a dagger, minus the second edge.

Timo Nieminen · 28th March 2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I wonder, where did that pommel style originate?
I do see it on maces, Chinese sai, iron rods, and of course these knives.

I've seen it on photos of that are claimed to be Ming dynasty truncheons, jian-maces, and chicken-foot-tipped truncheons. I don't know how reliably these are dated as Ming - the books these appear in have Chinese text which I can't significantly read

Definitely used in the Qing dynasty, for similar weapons, and knives like here, and also sometimes on swords. It appears in Qing art, as well as many surviving examples. Alex Huangfu's "Iron and Steel Swords of China" has one Qing example (with guard in the same style), and the attached example is supposedly Qing.

I haven't seen any non-Chinese examples until the American-made Chinese knives in this thread.

harimauhk · 28th March 2012, 03:32 AM

Fascinating! I was born in Hong Kong and until Kuk showed me his knife, I'd never seen one of these. I'm going to see if I can find an antique one locally.

KuKulzA28 · 28th March 2012, 03:04 PM

Oooh, good info Timo

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Fascinating! I was born in Hong Kong and until Kuk showed me his knife, I'd never seen one of these. I'm going to see if I can find an antique one locally.

Hehe, good luck! There's a smith in Taiwan who's made a very similar type of knife, but I forget his name...

VANDOO · 7th April 2012, 05:32 AM

HERE ARE A FEW EXAMPLES OF CHINESE KNIVES FIGHTING AND FANCY DRESS KNIVES. THE ONE WITH A LAPIS HANDLE LOOKS A BIT TOO NICE FOR A TOURIST PIECE 12.5 INCHES LONG. THE ONE WITH BRONZE DRAGON FITTINGS IS ONLY 9IN LONG AND MAY BE A REPLICA OF A 18TH CENTURY KNIFE? ALL I HAVE IS THE PICTURES SO CAN ONLY GUESS.

VANDOO · 7th April 2012, 05:40 AM

ONE MORE PICTURE OF THE CHINESE DOUBBLE FIGHTING KNIVES
PICTURES OF A CHINESE KNIFE OR LETTER OPENER USING A WHITE JADE BELT HOOK AND A BAT DESIGN, GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT MAY BE A LETTER OPENER??
PICTURES OF A SOUTHWEST CHINA MINORITY TRIBE KNIFE 19TH. CENTURY.

28th March 2012, 12:04 AM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,114	Sticking my two pennyworth in, I think the heavy pommel is a dead giveaway that it is a fighting knife. It is a style seen on Chinese Jian maces, re the example below. I have pics of others in like style, and I am told it can even appear on swords. Attached Images

7th April 2012, 05:32 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE A FEW EXAMPLES OF CHINESE KNIVES FIGHTING AND FANCY DRESS KNIVES. THE ONE WITH A LAPIS HANDLE LOOKS A BIT TOO NICE FOR A TOURIST PIECE 12.5 INCHES LONG. THE ONE WITH BRONZE DRAGON FITTINGS IS ONLY 9IN LONG AND MAY BE A REPLICA OF A 18TH CENTURY KNIFE? ALL I HAVE IS THE PICTURES SO CAN ONLY GUESS. Attached Images

7th April 2012, 05:40 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ONE MORE PICTURE OF THE CHINESE DOUBBLE FIGHTING KNIVES PICTURES OF A CHINESE KNIFE OR LETTER OPENER USING A WHITE JADE BELT HOOK AND A BAT DESIGN, GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT MAY BE A LETTER OPENER?? PICTURES OF A SOUTHWEST CHINA MINORITY TRIBE KNIFE 19TH. CENTURY. Attached Images

27th March 2012, 02:41 AM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Nice picture! I have heard many are made of pig skin, but I would guess any sort of leather would do. Interestingly, there's "Ping Pu" (Taiwan's indigenous peopl eof the plains, now largely assimilated) knives that look quite similar to these Chinese fighting knives, and their sheaths are usually cord-wrapped and wooden. Well, I think part of the reason for their large size is, well, you could get away with it (socially more acceptable?) better back then. Nowadays in many places having a knife well-suited for killing is already asking for trouble - unless it's covert and hidden from view. But to be honest I think in back in the day, in times of peace and in more affluent areas, unless an acceptable or expected part of man's daily attire, weaponry held in the open was usually not acceptable in most cultures... Then again, soldiers, bandits, thugs, and folks from the countryside lived outside the norms of normal urbanites, right? Plus, for fighting, a big knife has a lot of advantages. You can stab deeper and have a longer cutting edge to cut and slice. As these are very good stabbers, this would make sense. Aside from concealment and surprise, small knives for fighting don't have those combat advantages. They're also pretty sharp - at least mine is, and the edge is good. For utility, a longer cutting edge is always good. Another thought... the handle is very plain in geometry, comfortable and versatile. This knife can easily be in any normal grip: held edge up or down, blade up or down. A very simple design, but pretty effective. The participation of American cutlers is very cool, I did not know that. But this makes sense... Europe and America had many skilled smiths/manufacturers and they made blades for local markets everywhere... from Indian and African swords to African, Oceanic, and Latin American machetes... and tomahawks, spears, and arrowheads before that for Native Americans.

28th March 2012, 03:29 AM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I've never seen it on swords, but I do agree that it's a fighting oriented weapon and pommels like that aren't typically on utility knives... ever. I wonder, where did that pommel style originate? I do see it on maces, Chinese sai, iron rods, and of course these knives. I've been thinking about utility for this knife, and sure it's got a sharp edge, it can be used for utility. But I think looking for a utility is futile. It was probably a man's everyday carry and meant for defense and murder, but could easily be used for mundane tasks if need be. But the purpose and design of the knife seems be like (like I keep saying) for stabbing. It's got as much utility as a dagger, minus the second edge.

28th March 2012, 03:32 AM	#5
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Fascinating! I was born in Hong Kong and until Kuk showed me his knife, I'd never seen one of these. I'm going to see if I can find an antique one locally.