Unknown coat-of-arms dating to the 16th century

Jean-Marc S. · 19th March 2012, 06:59 PM

here are some additional pics. Thanks.

jm

Matchlock · 20th March 2012, 06:42 PM

After intense stylistic research I think that the style of the etching represents the early 17th-century taste; this may be an Austrian sword from the Trabanten-Leibgarde (body guard) of an Austrian (Salzburg?) archbishop, ca. 1620.
The crosses in the corners to me do not seem to be Templar's crosses but rather those of an archbishopry.

m

Indianajones · 20th March 2012, 07:36 PM

Hello, no I was indeed wrong about ascribing the crosses-section to the Templars as Norman already put straight. It is from Jerusalem (which led me to this mistake as the Templars have resided there) and have added pic of (full) coat of arms of Jerusalem.
The Lions are facing the wrong direction to be English, though the way they are depicted is quite in an 'English style' (streched/compressed), isnt it?!

Quite an interesting sword I must say! Am curious about the outcome.
Regards, Wouter

Jean-Marc S. · 20th March 2012, 08:42 PM

Hello Guys,

Thanks for your help in the identification of this coat-of-arms. The royal crown, together with the kingdom of jerusalem quarter suggests royal descendants of Frederick II (not Ferdinand II).

As mentioned by David M. Bertie (Curatorial Officer – Documentation & Conservation.
Role - Line manager for documentation and conservation staff; collections management; curator for Banff Museum. Collections specialism: family history ; ecclesiastical history , heraldry).

He wrote:

Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor, married Yolante, the daughter of John, King of Jerusalem. Their grandson Conradin, Duke of Swabia, had no issue. Succeeding Dukes of Swabia may have considered that the right to bear the Jerusalem arms passed to them, along with anything else they inherited. This is simply a suggestion to explain the occurrence together of the Jerusalem arms and three lions. Swabia, Burgundy -- suggests an origin somewhere in the western Holy Roman Empire.

My suggestion regarding Swabia for the three lions arose from scouring Lauda & Maclagan. That was the only connection to Jerusalem that I could find in their book.

19th March 2012, 06:59 PM	#1
Jean-Marc S. Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: France Posts: 104	Additional pics here are some additional pics. Thanks. jm Attached Images

20th March 2012, 07:36 PM	#3
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	Hello, no I was indeed wrong about ascribing the crosses-section to the Templars as Norman already put straight. It is from Jerusalem (which led me to this mistake as the Templars have resided there) and have added pic of (full) coat of arms of Jerusalem. The Lions are facing the wrong direction to be English, though the way they are depicted is quite in an 'English style' (streched/compressed), isnt it?! Quite an interesting sword I must say! Am curious about the outcome. Regards, Wouter Attached Images

20th March 2012, 08:42 PM	#4
Jean-Marc S. Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: France Posts: 104	Royal descendants of Frederick II ? Hello Guys, Thanks for your help in the identification of this coat-of-arms. The royal crown, together with the kingdom of jerusalem quarter suggests royal descendants of Frederick II (not Ferdinand II). As mentioned by David M. Bertie (Curatorial Officer – Documentation & Conservation. Role - Line manager for documentation and conservation staff; collections management; curator for Banff Museum. Collections specialism: family history ; ecclesiastical history , heraldry). He wrote: Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor, married Yolante, the daughter of John, King of Jerusalem. Their grandson Conradin, Duke of Swabia, had no issue. Succeeding Dukes of Swabia may have considered that the right to bear the Jerusalem arms passed to them, along with anything else they inherited. This is simply a suggestion to explain the occurrence together of the Jerusalem arms and three lions. Swabia, Burgundy -- suggests an origin somewhere in the western Holy Roman Empire. My suggestion regarding Swabia for the three lions arose from scouring Lauda & Maclagan. That was the only connection to Jerusalem that I could find in their book.

20th March 2012, 06:42 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	After intense stylistic research I think that the style of the etching represents the early 17th-century taste; this may be an Austrian sword from the Trabanten-Leibgarde (body guard) of an Austrian (Salzburg?) archbishop, ca. 1620. The crosses in the corners to me do not seem to be Templar's crosses but rather those of an archbishopry. m